LED load equalizers
#21
07-08-2010 | 07:37 PM
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From: Illinois
Actually the documentation that I want to see is H-D documentation, not Dennis Kirk or anyone else (Badlands, etc.). While I don't doubt that removing (the equivalent of a burned out bulb) a turn signal bulb will cause that side not to work, this says nothing about the Security light. I assume that the Security light referred to is the small key in the speedometer that lights up red. All I can find in either the owner's manual or the factory service manual is that this LED will come on for a longer period that usual if the security system is installed and appears to the system to be malfuntioning.
#22
07-08-2010 | 11:30 PM
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There two Harleys at my house, a 2007 Ultra which does not have a security system and a 2008 RG which does. The owners manuals and the factory service manuals do not distinguish between bikes that have the system and those that do not.
Since no one seems to be able to point to any H-D literature that discusses the issue of the security light being turned on by low current draw by the turn signals (or any other bulb, for that matter) (e.g., a burned out incandescent bulb or replacement by LEDs) I assume that it doesn't exist. Which makes the "known fact," as it was called by The Shrink, not so well known.
Since no one seems to be able to point to any H-D literature that discusses the issue of the security light being turned on by low current draw by the turn signals (or any other bulb, for that matter) (e.g., a burned out incandescent bulb or replacement by LEDs) I assume that it doesn't exist. Which makes the "known fact," as it was called by The Shrink, not so well known.
Last edited by tedcmiller (Cry Baby); 07-08-2010 at 11:34 PM.
#24
07-09-2010 | 06:53 AM
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 754
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From: Illinois
Here's a fact for you... the security module better known as
the TSSM (turn signal-security module) not only controls the security system also
controls the turn signals.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/g...bmLocale=en_US
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/g...bmLocale=en_US
the TSSM (turn signal-security module) not only controls the security system also
controls the turn signals.
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/g...bmLocale=en_US
http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/g...bmLocale=en_US
Last edited by Hinzy; 07-09-2010 at 06:55 AM.
#25
07-09-2010 | 07:45 AM
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Joined: Jul 2009
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There two Harleys at my house, a 2007 Ultra which does not have a security system and a 2008 RG which does. The owners manuals and the factory service manuals do not distinguish between bikes that have the system and those that do not.
Since no one seems to be able to point to any H-D literature that discusses the issue of the security light being turned on by low current draw by the turn signals (or any other bulb, for that matter) (e.g., a burned out incandescent bulb or replacement by LEDs) I assume that it doesn't exist. Which makes the "known fact," as it was called by The Shrink, not so well known.
Since no one seems to be able to point to any H-D literature that discusses the issue of the security light being turned on by low current draw by the turn signals (or any other bulb, for that matter) (e.g., a burned out incandescent bulb or replacement by LEDs) I assume that it doesn't exist. Which makes the "known fact," as it was called by The Shrink, not so well known.
Since you prefer to reach your conclusions based on the absence of information in the manual vs the experience of many others before, just go ahead and install whatever LEDs strike your fancy without installing a L/E.
Then you can report back how well your security system works....or more likely...how it doesn't work!
#26
07-09-2010 | 07:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 10,449
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From: Roswell, GA
tedcmiller: If you check the 2008 Touring Model Electrical Diagnostic Manual, section 3.9, you will find it deals with Diagnostic Trouble Codes related to turn signal malfunction. In that section, you will also find the following quote regarding the security light's function (regardless of whether a bike has a security system or not) when the bike is turned "on:"
•
"After the (security) lamp turns off after being illuminated
for the first four-second period, one of three events may occur:
for the first four-second period, one of three events may occur:
•
The lamp remains off. This indicates there are no current
fault conditions or stored historic DTCs currently detected
by the HFSM.
by the HFSM.
•
The lamp stays off for only four seconds and then comes
back on for an eight-second period. This indicates a historic
DTC is stored, but no current DTC exists.
DTC is stored, but no current DTC exists.
•
The lamp remains on beyond the eight-second period.
This indicates a current DTC exists."
There are also DTC's for turn signal conditions on bikes with and without security.
I'm not a tech and have no experience with load equalizers generally, or load equalizers when using LED turn signals. I have LED turn signals in the rear of my '04 EG, and incandescent bulbs in the front. I believe what Shrink and Heatwave are describing is with the LED's in all four turn signals will cause the TSM to see a low electrical draw condition when the left or right turn signal is used which will cause the security lamp to remain lit because the TSM concludes that the low draw is due to a lamp being open/unlit.
Carl
This indicates a current DTC exists."
There are also DTC's for turn signal conditions on bikes with and without security.
I'm not a tech and have no experience with load equalizers generally, or load equalizers when using LED turn signals. I have LED turn signals in the rear of my '04 EG, and incandescent bulbs in the front. I believe what Shrink and Heatwave are describing is with the LED's in all four turn signals will cause the TSM to see a low electrical draw condition when the left or right turn signal is used which will cause the security lamp to remain lit because the TSM concludes that the low draw is due to a lamp being open/unlit.
Carl
#27
07-09-2010 | 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Here
To quote another post by tedcmiller (words changed to fit the topic of this thread)-
"I was going to say something to all those who don't understand the affect of LED lights on current draw. But, I see that their inaccurate descriptions of what happens when LED lights are installed have been corrected."
"I was going to say something to all those who don't understand the affect of LED lights on current draw. But, I see that their inaccurate descriptions of what happens when LED lights are installed have been corrected."
#28
07-09-2010 | 01:46 PM
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At last! Obviously Harleypingman and I both have the 2008 Electrical Diagnostic Manuals - TheShrink obviously does not (he goes by hearsay rather than the written word of H-D). I am happy to say that Harleypingman is 100% correct. Apparently the Security light stays on for any DTC that is current - not just those associated with turn signals.
Now, for anyone else (such as Heatwave) who want to make rash assumptions, I don't plan to install LED replacements for the turn signals. I might do so if H-D offered such replacements (H-D usually takes such things as reduced current draw by LEDs into account). Now that Harleypingman has pointed out the documentation I originally asked for, there is no need to perform experiments as suggested by TheShrink.
Finally, Hinzy, I looked at both of the links you provided and saw that one indicated that the add-on Security module has a built-in turn signal sensor - not that it controlled the turn signal system. I am done.
Now, for anyone else (such as Heatwave) who want to make rash assumptions, I don't plan to install LED replacements for the turn signals. I might do so if H-D offered such replacements (H-D usually takes such things as reduced current draw by LEDs into account). Now that Harleypingman has pointed out the documentation I originally asked for, there is no need to perform experiments as suggested by TheShrink.
Finally, Hinzy, I looked at both of the links you provided and saw that one indicated that the add-on Security module has a built-in turn signal sensor - not that it controlled the turn signal system. I am done.