Closed Loop Tuning
#41
08-18-2006 | 04:46 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
That's going to put the price about the same for either. I'm curious to see if that's what the price really is when it comes time to buy. My fatcats are about 1.5 yrs old so I still have to have some bungs welded in, then the cost of the wego on top of that. But I've paid enough for dyno tuning to pay for all of that already and I'm still not satisfied. Maybe I never will be.
I'm currently running a PC III on my bagger that's going to have the Thundermax, and I have a TV II for the softail that I was supposed to install this week. still on the list. I'm still waiting on my Thundermax, ordered Monday after they returned from the rally. I didn't want to order until I actually talked to someone about some questions about heat mgt, codes and the like. I have purchased other stuff from them and their support is great, never failed to answer my questions to my satisfaction. Can't beat a 30 day money back no matter what. I figure it's well worth trying.
I started to just go with the sert and more dyno time but now days I have a bugupmyarse about going closed loop.
I'm currently running a PC III on my bagger that's going to have the Thundermax, and I have a TV II for the softail that I was supposed to install this week. still on the list. I'm still waiting on my Thundermax, ordered Monday after they returned from the rally. I didn't want to order until I actually talked to someone about some questions about heat mgt, codes and the like. I have purchased other stuff from them and their support is great, never failed to answer my questions to my satisfaction. Can't beat a 30 day money back no matter what. I figure it's well worth trying.
I started to just go with the sert and more dyno time but now days I have a bugupmyarse about going closed loop.
#42
08-18-2006 | 05:06 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
I wonder if the new O2 sensors that are offered from DTT will fit the existing holes where the factory O2 sensors are located currently. If so, that would be nice for the installation. I really want to try one out but don't want to part with $850.00 right now. Do they offer a 30 day money back guarantee like Zippers ?
#43
08-18-2006 | 05:56 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
Sure they will fit..the Bung hole for O2 sensors apparently is an agreeded upon standard thread size. YOu should call the guys at DTT, easy to to get competent tech guys on the phone. CHris Schroeder is the the main man. They sell a WEGO system for $340 which includes the sensors and a readout box, but in order for it to be coupled to the ECM you have to buy their ECM. Thats the way you get auto tuning. Harley should at some point be offering an upgrade to to a wide band O2 sensor for all the 110 and 107 upgrades they are pushing so that it work better with their SERT. That may be you cheapest wayt to go if you want to sitck with HD ECM.
#44
08-18-2006 | 06:17 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
The SERT DOES NOT GIVE AFR READINGS!!! You have target AFR settings. The WEGO /DTT use acurate AFR readings!!!
ORIGINAL: copout221
Neither the Thundermax or the DTT module can offer these features. The SERT is the only way to go if tuned properly.
The 2007 version of the Tuner software adds the ability to turn ON/OFF the ‘Engine Idle Temperature Management System’ (EITMS) that is described on p.13 - 14 of the manual. The feature is found in the ‘ECM Tuning Constants’ table and is located just beneath the ‘Knock Control’ box.
ENGINE IDLE TEMPERATURE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
Model Year 2007 Big Twin Vehicles:
For those riders who frequently find themselves in riding conditions where the vehicle is subjected to prolonged idle conditions, an optional ‘Engine Idle Temperature Management System’ (EITMS) is available. This feature offers limited rear cylinder cooling with the vehicle stopped while the engine is left at idle.
Please note the following:
Customer benefits - If a customer experiences frequent riding conditions where prolonged idle conditions create excessive engine heat, this calibration offers limited rear cylinder cooling with the vehicle stopped and engine at idle. While enabled, the customer may notice a unique exhaust odor which may be objectionable. The EITMS does not address engine heat issues resulting from other operating conditions.
Additionally, the user can adjust the ECM Tuning Constants, such as engine displacement and fuel injector rate and they can toggle the knock sensor ON/OFF and set engine rpm limit.
In either the Basic or Advanced Tuning Modes the user makes edits to the tables desired, saves the new file they created and then programs the ECM with the new calibration.
Data Mode Program
The Harley-Davidson Screamin' Eagle Data Mode Program is a data acquisition program that can be used to record over 20-different types of engine and vehicle data from the vehicle’s ECM. The user can record data periods up to 30-minutes for tuning or troubleshooting purposes while testing the bike on a closed-course track or chassis dynamometer. Three mini-programs within the Data Mode program provide the tuner with methods to assess and compare vehicle performance.
Neither the Thundermax or the DTT module can offer these features. The SERT is the only way to go if tuned properly.
The 2007 version of the Tuner software adds the ability to turn ON/OFF the ‘Engine Idle Temperature Management System’ (EITMS) that is described on p.13 - 14 of the manual. The feature is found in the ‘ECM Tuning Constants’ table and is located just beneath the ‘Knock Control’ box.
ENGINE IDLE TEMPERATURE MANAGEMENT SYSTEM
Model Year 2007 Big Twin Vehicles:
For those riders who frequently find themselves in riding conditions where the vehicle is subjected to prolonged idle conditions, an optional ‘Engine Idle Temperature Management System’ (EITMS) is available. This feature offers limited rear cylinder cooling with the vehicle stopped while the engine is left at idle.
Please note the following:
Customer benefits - If a customer experiences frequent riding conditions where prolonged idle conditions create excessive engine heat, this calibration offers limited rear cylinder cooling with the vehicle stopped and engine at idle. While enabled, the customer may notice a unique exhaust odor which may be objectionable. The EITMS does not address engine heat issues resulting from other operating conditions.
Additionally, the user can adjust the ECM Tuning Constants, such as engine displacement and fuel injector rate and they can toggle the knock sensor ON/OFF and set engine rpm limit.
In either the Basic or Advanced Tuning Modes the user makes edits to the tables desired, saves the new file they created and then programs the ECM with the new calibration.
Data Mode Program
The Harley-Davidson Screamin' Eagle Data Mode Program is a data acquisition program that can be used to record over 20-different types of engine and vehicle data from the vehicle’s ECM. The user can record data periods up to 30-minutes for tuning or troubleshooting purposes while testing the bike on a closed-course track or chassis dynamometer. Three mini-programs within the Data Mode program provide the tuner with methods to assess and compare vehicle performance.
#45
08-18-2006 | 06:17 PM
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#46
08-18-2006 | 06:42 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
The folks at Zippers told me that the HD security module was fully supported, that was one of my primary questions. what you do lose is getting error codes flashed on the odo, also heat management. They use one of the speedo indicators to let you know the head temp has passed a threshold and it's time to do something about it.
#47
08-18-2006 | 11:43 PM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
Thats good details Okie.....I guess it's no big deal to lose those items. I have never had my by bike go in to automatic het mgmt but the theory sounds good.
Phil, did not get to the DTT guys today , but I will follow up. Pulled the trigger on the Fat Cats so I am setting the table for an easy adoption of a closed loop sometime soon ...I hope
Phil, did not get to the DTT guys today , but I will follow up. Pulled the trigger on the Fat Cats so I am setting the table for an easy adoption of a closed loop sometime soon ...I hope
#48
08-19-2006 | 03:33 AM
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RE: Closed Loop Tuning
I can vouch for the ThunderMax. I have a 06 Dyna Super Glide with Rinehart 2:1 & SE Air Cleaner. Dealer put "their most aggressive" download on it. Ran but had all kinds of drivability issues. I have been through all of the question and concerns covered in this thread. I fought the DTT, SERT, PC III, TVI ThunderMax dilemma.
I bought and installed a ThunderMax and have had no issues or problems with any of the mentioned concerns. I went with Zippers because when I called and asked to talk to someone, they but me in touch with a knowledgeable person. The answered any question I asked, they were willing to tell me about products in the works and they acted like they wanted my business. When I talked to them about what I had on my bike, they told me they would check with R & D to find out and would get back to me. In less than 24 hours they e-mailed me that they would have a ThunderMax for my setup in 30 days. 30 days later I get an e-mail and they tell me they have it ready and asked me if I am ready to order it. I called them that morning and 2 days later the ThunderMax arrived.
The following is the letter I wrote to them the next day. You will find it the Zippers Website under customer testimonials.
http://zippersperformance.com/catalo...=588&prod=2156
This is the letter I sent Zippers.
Pete,
I received the ThunderMax (TM) yesterday and got it installed.
WOW, WOW, WOW.
I cannot believe the difference. Not that I was anxious to install it, but I spent an hour in 100+ heat to install it. It was the best hour I have spent on my bike so far…
I took it out and ran it under the normal conditions I had tried before.
In town, I no longer have to keep it (my bike) in a lower gear to keep the RPM up past 2600 (to keep it from lugging and to get good throttle response)! I can now cruise around as low as around 1700 RPM and still have excellent throttle response. No more flat spots after 5800 RPM, either. Now it pulls strong all the way to 6200 RPM!
Cruising down the highway at 70MPH, I now roll on the throttle and get a nice gentle push back in the seat - before it just would labor unless I downshifted.
Now when I get off the throttle (no matter if it is on the highway, coming off an off ramp or slowing down for a stop light) no more rumbling and backfiring! Just a nice purr! The exhaust even sounds totally different.
Before the plugs where white - I mean white as a new piece of paper! Now, well you already know the story, a nice light tan both front and back.
Am I happy? You bet I am, and this is only after just getting back from 50 miles in 94 degree heat. I am sure it is only going to get better.
Now, will I suggest the TM to others? "Hell Yes".
Will I be getting the update or the closed loop system when you announce it? "Hell Yes".
Will I be looking at other products that Zippers has?? "Absolutely."
Thank You for a great product and your help in getting a TM for my setup in a short period of time.
H.D., Overland Park, KS
I have about 1500 miles on the ThunderMax and continue to be satisfied. .
I have called and discussed several other options and things with Zippers. I have talked to both Pete & Randy and both know what is going on and are willing to take the time to discuss questions about their products and to share what is going on with the WEGO Closed loop system.
Zippers understands what customer service is all about.
I bought and installed a ThunderMax and have had no issues or problems with any of the mentioned concerns. I went with Zippers because when I called and asked to talk to someone, they but me in touch with a knowledgeable person. The answered any question I asked, they were willing to tell me about products in the works and they acted like they wanted my business. When I talked to them about what I had on my bike, they told me they would check with R & D to find out and would get back to me. In less than 24 hours they e-mailed me that they would have a ThunderMax for my setup in 30 days. 30 days later I get an e-mail and they tell me they have it ready and asked me if I am ready to order it. I called them that morning and 2 days later the ThunderMax arrived.
The following is the letter I wrote to them the next day. You will find it the Zippers Website under customer testimonials.
http://zippersperformance.com/catalo...=588&prod=2156
This is the letter I sent Zippers.
Pete,
I received the ThunderMax (TM) yesterday and got it installed.
WOW, WOW, WOW.
I cannot believe the difference. Not that I was anxious to install it, but I spent an hour in 100+ heat to install it. It was the best hour I have spent on my bike so far…
I took it out and ran it under the normal conditions I had tried before.
In town, I no longer have to keep it (my bike) in a lower gear to keep the RPM up past 2600 (to keep it from lugging and to get good throttle response)! I can now cruise around as low as around 1700 RPM and still have excellent throttle response. No more flat spots after 5800 RPM, either. Now it pulls strong all the way to 6200 RPM!
Cruising down the highway at 70MPH, I now roll on the throttle and get a nice gentle push back in the seat - before it just would labor unless I downshifted.
Now when I get off the throttle (no matter if it is on the highway, coming off an off ramp or slowing down for a stop light) no more rumbling and backfiring! Just a nice purr! The exhaust even sounds totally different.
Before the plugs where white - I mean white as a new piece of paper! Now, well you already know the story, a nice light tan both front and back.
Am I happy? You bet I am, and this is only after just getting back from 50 miles in 94 degree heat. I am sure it is only going to get better.
Now, will I suggest the TM to others? "Hell Yes".
Will I be getting the update or the closed loop system when you announce it? "Hell Yes".
Will I be looking at other products that Zippers has?? "Absolutely."
Thank You for a great product and your help in getting a TM for my setup in a short period of time.
H.D., Overland Park, KS
I have about 1500 miles on the ThunderMax and continue to be satisfied. .
I have called and discussed several other options and things with Zippers. I have talked to both Pete & Randy and both know what is going on and are willing to take the time to discuss questions about their products and to share what is going on with the WEGO Closed loop system.
Zippers understands what customer service is all about.
#49
08-19-2006 | 02:14 PM
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From: The sticks in SC
RE: Closed Loop Tuning
fimduc, how much did you Fat cats cost? and was wondering were the O2 ports are located? Reason I ask is that the O2 sensors seem to stick out a good bit and was wondering about interverence. I'm planning on doing the closed loop thing myself and was going to lay down the foundation to make it as easy as possible when I do pull the trigger
Great thread[sm=burnout.gif]
Great thread[sm=burnout.gif]
#50
08-20-2006 | 01:03 AM
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