I am having a very hard time reading all of this anti-union garbage. If you really think that life is so much better without them then you have been truly brainwashed. I would bet that if most people had the choice to work for an employer with a union, they would be happy to do so. Unions give workers a voice and protection from unchallenged greed. Do you think that teachers, nurses, officers, plumbers, electricians, Harley Davidson employees, etc are being arrogant in wanting a good and honest wage? Really? Someday the American union may disappear and believe me, things will be a lot worse.

 

I think that day is here.Talking about unions disappering....Any way my local dealer,the owner that is ,thinks that H-D has way too many models.He said at the midwest winter dealers meeting there was alot of talk to the moco about too many dynas and sportys models and the moco reps agreed.One thing the moco will see some saving on this quater is buell being history.....too many models not selling cost ALOT of money!

 

It's funny to me to read the anti-union posters here. So you have these people who are bright enough to head a large corporation, but are somehow so stupid that they are victimized by a labor union? No way! These guys play a numbers game to make it look like they just can't make it anymore because of the unions, but they are making huge profits all the while. People with no imagination, like the anti-union posters in this thread, eat up the BS they are spoon fed and then spew it back out like good little corporate soldiers. Unions are absolutely a part of the check-and-balance system in business today.

 

I'm still waiting to see some facts and figures, from the union bashers, that are relative to the MOCO's situation. There are many things about the MOCO's business and product that need to change, and I have no idea what percentage of the price of a Harley Davidson can be attributed to direct (manufacturing) labor costs.
My local dealership looks like a palace on the outside and a flea market on the inside.
And they're not dealing.

 

So please explain why union membership has been declining for decades if it is so wonderful. I have worked on the shop floor and in management, both union and non-union and I will say I would never have a union job again.

There are millions of companies in this country, a few bad but most are good companies that treat their employees fairly, if not great, without being forced to by some union. I know my non-union jobs have given me higher pay and benefits than my union positions did. Plus the non-union companies offered me a way to move up in the company if I was willing to do the work required. I have seen more back-stabbing within the union itself than I ever have between management and workers.

 

First let me say that HD's problems most likely are not union caused, the major factor is that sales have been cut in half. Having said that, having a union workforce does limit what a company can do when bad times such as these arrive, it all depends on the specific union contract exactly where those problems are centered and I do not know the specifics. Just the fact a union contract exists lets us know that all flexibility has been removed. Usually the only choices when it comes to a union workforce is how many you can afford to employee so layoffs is the only option. Management people are people just like you and I also and not some form of greedy heart-less bastard that pro-union people try to make you think they are. I would like to see some of our resident union members or any non-management member here actually have to call a man in and lay him off, it is undoubtedly the most difficult and agonizing task there is. I do not wish it on anyone, just as I do not wish losing their job on anyone.

A few here have suggested that HD cut it prices, which is more a personal wish of theirs instead of a sound business decision. If a potential customer cannot afford a $20k bike, the chances they can afford an $18k bike are pretty slim realistically so would sales actually increase significantly? I doubt it. Now suppose HD makes $4000 profit on each bike and they did lower the price $2000. The cost of building that bike did not go down..the material costs are the same, the labor costs are the same, the factory over head is the same, everything is the same except the profit which would now only be $2000 per bike. If sales were to climb back up then yes they could keep the same workforce employed, keep the factories open, and generally keep the wheels turning as always. Or could they?

If sales did return then HD would be making half the profit which would result in shareholders pulling their investments and going elsewhere, less money for required expenditures such as machine upgrade and maintenance, less R & D money for bike improvements and future models, less money for future union demands, less money for everything. The end result is the company would survive for a short period and then start a cycle downwards until it collapsed under its own weight. Profit margins are a tedious balance between the cost of doing business, what the marketplace will bear, and the future goals of the company and shareholders. HD is in the business of building bikes for a profit, not because you want one of them or any other reason. If HD reduces prices the value of out current bikes will drop right along with it as well.

 

And some people try to BLAME the unions for companies failures,, wow, how narrow minded can you get?
I won't say some of the problems of SOME business' are not complicated by unions. BUT they are by far not the major reason for any company's failure.

The thing above is the reason, if Harley is in such dispair, HOW IN THE HELL does the CEO think he is worthy of any kind of bonus, ANY at all?
As said above, the company negotiated the contract. Sure they can't tell what the future will bring. And maybe it needs to be re-negotiated. (Strike three times in 8 years?,, that is a bit overboard IMHO. And I have been in a UAW family for all my life. GM was very poorly ran for a very long time. Several years the Wall Street Journal would print, GM claims RECORD losses,,, then on the next page, (Top executives for GM split 60 million dollars in bonus'?(Not an accurate number, pulled it outa my ****, it was probably larger anyway) (I noted that on way too many occasions for GM) Our wages, my retirement are not the reasons GM got into trouble. Let me ask you "anti union" guys something. Say you work in a plant that has 2200 workers, and a lay off comes around, they lay off 400 hourly workers. Would you think some White collar workers would get laid off too? Nope, I saw that plant go from 2200 workers down to about 800 and they never laid off one salary person. Plus they were way over staffed in white collar to blue collar workers when they were at top production. This was back in the 80s,, and it didn't change any to my next two plants I was at.
So MGMT is probably MORE responsible than our wages or benefits. Look at Ford, they are making money with the same wage... Ford is obviously a better ran auto company.

 

I hear in new York the teachers union is protecting a teacher who likes to make sexual comments to female students. Well because of the teachers union they can't fire this pig so now he sits in a room and collects more then $100,000/yr plus benefits. Well now this predator is able to retire but chooses not to. Why should he! But then again it's only tax payers money.

 

Lets hope this never happens.

 

First of all the CEO did not set his compensation...none of it. He has a contract with the shareholders as negotiated by the Board of Directors. which were elected by the shareholders. I guess only that union contract should be enforced. I know, he should have given it back..you would have. Yeah right!

If you are in the UAW as you say, then you should be aware of the ten's of thousands of white collar job losses at GM also, if not Google it and see.