I expect nothing less, you hate all companies. Must suck having to depend on them for a job doesn't it?

Open Exxon's books and you will see they also paid a record payroll, a record amount of taxes to the government, and a record level of expenditures to other companies. Oh yes, all the hidden money. I guess you have never heard of Sarbanes-Oxley before.

 

I sit in an upper middle-management position and get squeezed by both. Cry and bicker all we want but the upper management is cost driven to be certain and will push the envelope to get there. Labor on the other end will push as hard as possible to get equal pay for non-producers, unflexible work loads. Employees want OT when they need it, not when the end customer has demands, no desire to grow and learn. Want to come in and turn that widget only and make $$ like it is rocket science.

Wherever these two sides fight each other there will be plenty of off-shore companies willing to come in and do it cheaper while we gripe and moan. If HD is one of these and can't pull together then in time they will be bought, chopped, operations moved, etc. Business as usual between labor or the "C's" will not cut it IMO.

 

You're clearly not understanding my point. It's not about making less money as either a union worker or a non-union worker. It's about business' that can be flexible and quickly change to fickle customer demands and changing local and global economic conditions.

When unions demand benefits and wages and work rules that prevent an American company from quickly changing to their customers wants/needs or to changing marketplace conditions, they undermine that American company. And to me that's un-American and is only one of the factors that's driving America down and enabling other countries to surpass us. As I said, it's only one issue. Regulations and taxes are also killing American business and we are about to add another reason with this healthcare leg. that will motivate companies to go overseas and for those already successful outside the US to avoid coming here. But nobody wants to listen. Are you at all surprised that the largest American company in the world, Exxon, picked up it's headquarters last year and moved to Dubai to escape these crushing costs.

Is it all about greed? Of course its all about greed. Greedy unions want everything they negotiated for during the good times when a company's on its knees. Executives want the same bonus they got during the good times. Stockholders want the maximum return they can get and there's lot's of alternatives out there. The gov. wants more power and drains great American companies.

We now have the 2nd highest business taxes in the world. We have the heaviest regulations on businesses, with the most expensive workforce. That was OK when America had the best infrastructure (roads/communications) and the most educated population. Well... we're no longer at the top in those areas anymore, therefore why should a business setup shop here when they can get a highly educated workforce and brand new infrastructure in China or India without the regulations, taxes or inflexible union contracts?

For those of you that haven't been to China, you need to realize their top 25 cities are far more advanced than ours, everyone drives big SUVs/Benzes/Buicks, wireless cafes everywhere and trust me they're not working for a bowl of rice. Our marketing managers in China now earn almost 70% of the same position here.

Don't misinterpret my remarks as anti-American. I am very pro-American (I even have a large American flag and an Eagle down my left arm). But folks need to wake-up and realize that there's highly educated folks in China and India motivated to work 2 & 3 jobs to get ahead and live the "American lifestyle" and we're simply not even trying to compete. We need lower business taxes, investment in Infrastructure, lower regulations and a more flexible workforce that will take on the world and beat them.

Unfortunately we're stuck in our past successes and too many of us think we're entitled. Trust me, the workers in China and India and the rest of the world think they're entitled to a better life as well. Just like many of our grandparents came to the US from countries that we're open to innovation and growth, it appears many of best an brightest are heading to Asia as well. Just check out this article from today http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/35892118...sinessweekcom/

HD is just one example of an American company that needs to demand a more flexible workforce and energize their R&D or they will also be looking back on the good 'ole days.

 

I try and stay out these threads but you hit the nail on the head. We have learned nothing since the market crashed (again) last year. The executives get rich pay packages because of no common sense regulations preventing excutives from hiring thier buddies on the compensation and executive boards.

On the other hand shouldn't their be some common sense regulation of Unions? They seem to be taking a lot of cash out of members paychecks, consolidating power, yet you can find better packages at non-Union shops.

I am not against all Unions, only the ones that are inflexible, rob their members blind with excessive dues, and stifle innovation. Not all companies are bad either. Look at the ones not taking money from the government or those companies that quickly get rid of **** poor management and non-performers.

In HD's case you be the judge. I don't know the reasons why unions are needed there. Is HD management that inflexible and unfair to their employees? I honestly don't know.

 

Yeah, I have heard of "S-O" before. I've also done some bargaining from the labor side and seen the BS accounting that goes on. Throw in the deep-pocket money that is spent on high-powered attorneys and accountants and you have a group of people with enough brains and power to make a simpleton like yourself march mindlessly in their army.

I don't hate all companies - I hate fools like you who spout your line without ever checking out both sides of the story. How do you ride a motorcycle if you're so blind?

 

Between this and your first post in this thread, you may have broken all records for the longest unpunctuated sentences in history. I may call Guiness.

 

Well thanks for your well thought out comment. It added so much insight into your comments.

 

Yours is very well thought out too - so workers in China and India are willing to work 2 or 3 jobs to get the lifestyle that Americans enjoy. That means that you admire a corporation that will pay a person so little that they must work 2 or 3 jobs to make a middle-class income. And that, despite your gloom and doom BS about unions, is the greedy motivation behind corporations relocating overseas. The corporate leaders gain far greater money and influence, and are further enticed by the foreign governments because they weaken America global standing while strengthening the foreign market.

So I think your views actually ARE anti-American regardless of your faux TATTOOS.

 

I agree with your view that the business plan for HD is broken. I enjoy my motorcycle and believe that most are attraction to HD’s because the bikes have not seen significant change (short of Buell) for many years. True, there have been technology advancements but no real new products to attract new business to the fold. If a business continues to operate as they have always, they will not survive in this global market. I would love to buy a now motorcycle, but I find it difficult to justify spending $20,000 + for a different color of something I currently have parked in my garage.
I have been a member of a union shop for most of my working life and know that I have benefitted for their efforts. I also know it is time to stop putting each other down because of their views and opinions and use some American ingenuity to return our workforce and industries to their lofty position of leading the world.

 

Oh? Creditor and bondholder obligations are supposed to be satisfied first during bankruptcy proceedings, liquidation of assets or restructuring. Now ask our government why GM bondholders got screwed.

I do believe this is another "pump and dump" story for Harley, but if the rumors are true, then any investor (private equity) that can snow regulators and Congressmen, and convince elected officials that selling the company will save jobs, will own Harley. Nothing Warren Buffet will be able to do about it.

Except maybe make a private equity bid of his own.