Its not the unions braking the bank , its the oil company's......................

 

Heatwave, you certainly listed some prime spots for a worker to seek employment! Would you travel to Mexico to be treated like a peasant worker there? Or would you rather stay here and receive a fair wage and benefits, job security and ethical treatment? Are our workers flocking across the border to Mexico to work for (NOT WITH) the billionaires?? So somehow it's all about the bad workers here, not the greed and callousness of the corporation who see opportunity in human rights violations.

If I could get the books of a company - the real books, not fudged in any way - then I would consider scaling salary and benefits to the company's general health. But then again, when my union gave back 10% it was because we got into the books and did the calculations. We still have some grossly overpaid admins but the writing was pretty much on the wall.

Simply put, when all the cuts are done the union workers will be scrimping to pay for a middle class lifestyle, but the higher-ups will not. Period.

 

That's a rather false choice. Of course I would rather stay here...... so long as I have a job.

My point was that its silly to be jealous of billionaires as the early poster suggested. In fact we should hope more of them are created here in the US, not overseas, which unfortunately is not the case. Without those billionaires being created here, you can be assured that even more jobs will be lost to those countries where the # of billionaires is rising.

 

Understood and agreed. To me it all comes full circle to the system of checks and balances, which both labor and management are part of.

 

I've been a member of the Operating Engineers for 25 years. Took wage and benefit freezes and cuts to help companies. I'm also one of the few that look for Made in America on all the item I purchase. Back in the 80's America's goal was to bring the world to our standard of living. That didn't work so in my opinion the elected official in Washington are trying to bring the American standard of living down to the third world country standard with a two class system. Been there seen that, worked in South America for 2 years. I have helped negotiate or negotiated over 50 union contracts for the IUOE and we always discussed the health of the company. I have never been on strike or crossed another unions picket. As far Unions driving industry out of America it is more corporate greed and stock holder greed. The company that are not publicly traded will fair much better in this economic down turn than the ones that are publicly traded. Just my .02 worth. LIVE TO RIDE AND WORK UNION

 

Heatwave, Why do you think these countries are producing more billionaires ? Do you actually expect the middle class to work for the same pay and under the same conditions as these third world countries ? Any company that closes up shop and moves to these countries for the cheap labor costs, While they were still making great profits here is simply just plain greed. That is treasonus. I have no problem with anyone doing well for themselves as long as they can sleep at night. These Gorden Ghecko types, If thats how you spell the name, Have ruined this country. If this is the case, don't call it jealousy, call it a deep hate. But you would probably call this good sound business. Guys with Heatwaves line of thinking we should all work for 3 dollars an hour and be thankful for it. I say screw the global economy.

 

Warren Buffet should not be trusted. He will make his profit at almost any expense. He is extremely intelligent and anytime he has a stake in something that doesn't seem to be making a profit margin he likes, he generally sells it to the highest bidder after he has closed it down. Gulf is the only one I can think of now but, check it out.

 

I will make the converse argument, which is that companies are not leaving the US looking for that cheap labor so they can reap in billions but rather in an attempt to survive at all. Many different things are forcing companies out of this country such as:

Yes, Labor Unions as an example we saw the union go on strike at the York plant recently with one of the main issues being that HD wanted to pay new unskilled workers less than fully productive workers and bring them up to equal as they acquired the require skills. Not an unfair request if you ask me.

Then we have local, state, and federal government all adding on regulations, additional taxes, and special fees that are becoming overwhelming to companies here in the US. We have the second highest corporate federal income tax in the world here and then you have to add on any state and local taxes. How many sports stadiums have you seen built and funded with special taxes on local businesses? Then we have regulatory agencies like OSHA. I once was designing a high pressure safety release system for an inert gas which if the pressure exceeded a safe level it would vent off into an additional tank as bells, whistles, sirens, and lights went off. It fact there were three stages it could vent into if the pressure continued to climb and each stage had another set of bells, whistles, sirens and lights that went off. Now if everybody was ignoring three sets of bells, whistles, sirens and lights going off and the pressure continued to rise we had an exhaust vent to atmosphere inside a chain link fence with ****** wire on top and signs in several languages warning people to stay out. OSHA decided that is nobody operating the plant had noticed all the going on and did not shut the system down, that a person could also ignore the bells, whistles, sirens, lights and signs and climb inside this fenced off area and stand next to the exhaust where there was "potential" for hearing loss. As a result, we had to spend an additional $2 million to build this system vertical putting the exhaust 100s of feet in the air.

Lawsuits are killing companies every day in this country as the courts are awarding stupid and enormous amounts. I am not talking abut legitimate suits, but one like spilling your own cup of coffee in your lap earns you $1 million. Dow Chemical was run out of business completely over silicone breast implants and a few years later after some research had actually been done it was found the silicone could not have caused any of those illnesses, in fact, silicone implants are once again being used now.

What really puzzles me is why unions always support the political party that is by far the worse of the two in doing or allowing all the things that are driving companies away.

You mentioned companies are making "great profits" here, but are they? Exxon/Mobil is constantly attacked for its huge profits but they are only 9% which is middle to low for most companies. Do you know what the health insurance companies, since they are the current evil greedy bastard companies, profits margin is? It averages out between them all at 2%. If you think this is greedy then if you had a company making widgets, and the total costs for making each widget (labor, material, packaging, shipping, advertising, taxes, building, utilities, insurance, etc.) was $5 .... then you certainly would not be as greedy as an insurance company and charge your customers $5.10 for each one would you?

 

Open the books of Exxon Mobil and the health insurance companies and see where their highly paid tax attorneys and accountants have been pushing the $$$ to hide the wealth. There's a lot of money pumping through those corporations, and they also have invested massively in "special government representation" so it's really hard for me to shed a tear for them.

 

I have heard the term stock holder greed a few times in this thread. Do you know who you are taking about? Yourself!

If you own any stock, have a 401k, a retirement account, a union or non-union pension, an investment account, a mutual fund, and IRA of any type, or virtually any other type of financial vehicle then you are a stock holder whether you realize it or not.

I doubt there is one of us who does not want to see our pension fund increase, or enjoy watching our IRA grow so I guess that makes us all greedy bastards.

Sometimes I think many people do not understand that there is no Mr. Exxon sitting on billions of dollars in a vault someplace and that those profits (minus any retained operating funds) are distributed to the shareholders which just happens to be any of us who so chooses to be included.