Trust your instinct. It's your bike.

 

That was directed to SpringerFan.......Good luck with the purchase but I think your going to find you will need asbestos pants in the summer time with the heat coming off that motor but that's just my two cents...

 

+1 on this.

 

The dealer that Westy is talking about sells a lot of bikes and most have modifications and the dealer has to honor the warranties. When I bought my '05 from them they told me that if I changed the pipes and the AC that I would need an update. When I bought my '08 they said no need and explained why. I have been playing with fuel injected motors for a long time and while I am no expert I do know a couple of things about this subject. I am not saying that tuners are a bad thing just that you no longer need one if you are just changing pipes and AC. I am sure that the guys from Fuelmoto could explain all of this better than I can and you are more apt to believe them.

 

You got that right......It will be interesting to see a business that sells fuel management devices tell us that they are not necessary for the longevity of our beloved motorcycles equipped with non-stock pipes and high flow air filters.

I've been wrong before and will be in the future and I'm always ready to learn something new.

Lets see how this plays out....................

 

I don't want to nit pick or cause a pissing match, but you have said this 3 times now and it is backwards. The Delphi ECM on '07 and newer run in closed loop with the O2 sensors. Open loop is ignoring the O2 sensor and running straight from the base map like when you get above 40% throttle (depending on the tune) and a certain RPM. If you truly have been "playing" with these motors for a long time, I would think you would have open and closed loop down by now....

Just an observation. Carry on.

 

Running without a tuner you are not going to get what you could out of the AC and pipes because the ecm is going to adjust the AFR back to the set range. This is also why you need to add o2 simulators to get the most out of it. All I am saying is that with pipes and an AC the ecm will richen the AFR back to within the set range and correct any lean condition within the limits of the ecm. I plan to add a PCV and O2 sensors to my SG so that I can really take advantage of the Rineharts and S&S. As I said before, if it wasn't for the O2 sensors and the open loop ECM (pre '07) you would be running too lean.

 

The people at Dillon's are straight talkers in my opinion. I am hearing the same info at Dillon's from the Service Manager. He said I can run my 2009 SG with upgraded pipes and intake kit without a tuner and the engine will be okay. However, he did caveat that with the comment the better option is to install the tuner and dyno the bike.

 

Ok, my dyslexia is acting up. Thanks for the correction.

 

I am not a mechanic but what I've read about the Delphi EFI system on the Harley is that the amount of air flowing thru the pump (motor) is programmed into the ECM! Unlike and auto which has a mass air flow sensor which tell's the ECM how much air! As I understand when HD flashes the ECM for the free'er flowing A/C & Muffler's the change is to the "Volumetric effiency table " ( how much air is in the combustion chamber ). This adjustment is not totally able to be done by the ECM in the closed loop mode because the ECM thinks that the stock A/C & Mufflers are what it is working with! If I am not correct in my understanding please post up and tell me why.

Thanks Russ