Why is TTS superior?

 

Sorry to hear of your decision to go with SERT. I wish you the best and hope your experience is better than mine. I learned the hard way that far too few techs exist that actually know how to use SERT. I ended up with a PCIII from FuelMoto and a dyno tune that netted 9 hp and 11 ft/lbs over stock on my 88" Twin Cam. I also got my mileage back up to 48-49 mpg highway. I know have a hot rod 95" motor in the same bike that exceeded the 100/100 mark and still gets the same mileage.
Again, good luck.

 

If you frequent one of the more "technical" forums as opposed to this one, you'll find that there is not as much support for the Power Commander.

Yes, the PCV is plug-and-play. Especially when set up by the seller for your setup. I have had personal experience, two times over with the Power Commander and canned maps. And with a Fuel Pak (garbage, junk, not even fit for a paperweight).

On my bike I have a TTS.

I sat in the dyno room one day watching my bike (TTS), my friend's bike (PCV), and a V-Rod (SEST) being tuned. The PCV is way easier to tune, but there are adjustments you cannot accomplish on the PCV that you can with the TTS or SERT. Additionally, without any additional equipment, the TTS or SEST or SERT allows you to run closed loop at cruise settings. A PCV will not allow you to do that, unless you buy additional equipment.

Why would you want a tuner that eliminates the 02 sensors? I personally don't understand.

As far as what the OP wants to accomplish, the SE tuner is the way to go. It already has the Stage I map ready to be loaded, and he can always upgrade later.

I've also modded Cummins Diesels since 2003. I've had better results using downloaders (just like a TTS or SERT) than with add-on modules. The throttle response is usually better and more controllable, as opposed to having an add-on module. Not going to go into the details here.

Bottom line, I'm sold on rewriting the ECM.

 

What does it cost for a TTS and lap-top to program. I would like to have one some day.
I went with the dobeck EJK because it fit my budget and it works. I'm just a low-life BCW with little ($) to throw down.

 

Does any of this void the warranty of the bike?

 

I'm with JDAWS on the Dobeck EJK. Installed on my 2010 Fat Bob and was like adding another cylinder! I added the Screaming Eagle stage 1 air kit at the same time other than that the bike is stock. I like the fact that I have complete control over the settings, can adjust it like a carb. Support from Dobeck is outstanding and just a phone call away. I will be adding pipes as soon as I can afford them and can tune it myself without going to the dealer. The tech at the dealer told me he removes as many Power CCommanders as he installs but then alot of the folks I ride with have PC and are very happy with them. Me, I love the EJK.

 

Even with the battles of which one is best, it really boils down to the quality of the tech doing the download. If you have a reliable tech doing the tuning, you can achieve good results with most of the products out there.

IMO, when you have a PC variety that eliminates the O2 sensors, your bike gets tuned for the alitude it was dynoed at. Much like an old carb bike. When you go with something that still uses the O2 sensors, your bike can adjust to different enviromental conditions.

I have had both PC and SERT and fell that the SERT gives better results. It can keep a desired AFR over different conditions. It also maintains the ability to monitor things during all the less than WOT conditions. Because, I believe, in WOT conditions, the O2 sensors are ignored.

Just the thought of knowing that the ECM was actually rewritten, and being lied to by an add on device is peace of mind to me.

Also, IMO, the stage 1 download is about useless.

 

I don't think anyone would disagree with that.

I don't think that's entire true. My understanding is, the Power Commander sits downstream of the ECU. It doesn't do anything to the ECU itself. The O2 sensors are bypassed to keep the ECU in an open loop mode. In that mode, the ECU is relying on the programmed maps without any modifying influence from the O2 sensors. Once those maps are understood, the PC can be programmed to modify the outputs to richen or lean the mixture as required for better performance or economy. Since the ECU is still basing it's responses on the sensors on the bike like throttle position, temperature, manifold pressure, etc., the system is still going to self compensate for altitude changes.

I'd refer you back to your first paragraph on the difference you've see between the PC and SERT.

As for when the O2 sensors are active or not, I could be wrong but from what I've read, the O2 sensors are only active (closed loop mode) at idle and under cruise conditions defined within a relatively narrow engine speed and throttle position range. Depending on how you ride, your engine might be spending most of it's time ignoring the O2 sensors anyway.

Ride Safe,
Steve R.

 

EFI has to be the hottest debatable topic on these forums. So I'm going to throw my 2 cts in. If you are going to stick to just a stage one upgrade for now (Exhaust and A/C) Give Jamie a call at FuelMoto and tell him what you have and he'll set you up with a pre-mapped PC-V. You'll be more then happy. If you plan on any further mods in the future (Cams, Cubes, Comp.) Sell the PC-V in the HD Forum classifieds and then go with the TTS and a good dyno tune. Done!

 

This isn't true and is a common misconception about the PC. It retains full functionality of the MAP sensor and all other sensors integral to the bike's original ECM, so it works as well to adjust for humidity, temperature, and altitude as a stock system. Contrary to popular belief the stock EFI does a very good job of adapting to varying conditions, even when O2 sensors are not used.

They are ignored at any throttle position above about 50%. If closed-loop is important to you the PCV with Auto-Tune provides closed-loop operation throughout the RPM and TP range, even WOT. It's wide-band O2 sensors provide full functionality and allow adjustment from about 11-16:1 AFR, with is much greater range than any gasoline engine is likely to encounter.

No, no, no! The PCV does not write to anything, much less the ECM. In fact, the ECM doesn't even know the PC is attached. It intercepts the ECM's instructions to the injectors and applies the changes dictated by the tuner. It works the same with ignition timing.

On this we are in agreement.