Fair to say sert is a dealer rip off that it still has to meet Epa standards? You have to keep going to them every time you change something for new map download or dyno$$$. Autotune and pcv much better all the way around with wide band 02 sensors? Sert uses narrow band that make the ecu try to stay at Epa 14.7.1

 

No, SERT/SEST/TTS (similar products created by Steve Cole) are basically computer programs to allow access to your bike's ECM. You have full ability to change settings within the capability of the hardware, and there are no EPA restrictions for their use. They are ostensibly designed for "race applications only," in HD's words, but I doubt if many are used in competition. These are all bike-specific and cannot be used on or transferred to another bike.

PCV-AT has its advantages, and that's the tuner combo I decided on, but you are not limited to stoich (14.7:1) with the Cole tuners. I haven't tuned with any of the Cole programs but understand you can manipulate closed-loop AFR's to 14.2, or eliminate the O2 sensors altogether and run in open-loop mode in those ranges normally covered by closed-loop.

They are both fine tuners that will provide an excellent tune given competent human intervention (map creation). IMO you can't accurately tune the Cole products without a dyno tune, at least not above about 60% TP when out of closed-loop mode, as the narrow-band sensors only work in a limited range (about 0-60% TP) and only within a narrow AFR range (14.2-15.1). Thus, if you want to run closed-loop and keep AFR's richer for better cooling in the cruise-range, say around 13.8, you can't do it.

PCV-AT of course works throughout the RPM/TP range and a much wider AFR range (~11-16:1), so tuning is mostly a matter of just setting AFR's where you want them in the Target AFR tables and ride. The PCV, either with or without AT, can also work with any on-off switch to toggle between two maps on the fly (non-AT) or from open- to closed-loop mode (AT). IMO, most people don't really need AT, and a basic PCV with a Fuel Moto map installed specifically for your hardware is the best bang-for-the-buck at $300. It is plug-and-play and most riders will not feel the need for a dyno-tune. AT is good for those who like to tweak and/or plan on doing other mods later on likely without the need for a dyno-tune.

Which is better is up to the rider. My advice is to call Fuel Moto and talk with them about the alternatives, as they sell both TTS and the PCV, although not SEST which is an HD product, and will give no-BS advise without the hard-sell. Their prices and service after the sale are also excellent. No, I don't work for them but am a long-time customer, as are many in this forum.

 

Oh...boy....hold on for the ride...

 

I've learned one thing from this thread, that being, child immunizations really can make you retarded.

 

So alot that buy this tuner from HD and spend the cash for dealer dyno leave with the narrow band sensors ,the module married to their bike and a sore ***? pcv/autotune much better setup?

 

I'm a tweaker and I love my PCV/AT. Its not a cure but is good therapy. The roads are icing over, I've got my emergency rations (barley pops and pizza) three hours of battery for the laptop. I'll watch this thread tonight even if the power goes down. I think I'll write some new maps. Twist.

 

i think that iclic seems to have explained it pretty accuratly. from my experience and have owned the older sert and pc3 and pc-5 .for the average lay person who doesn't want every ounce of horse power out of their stage one set up pc-5 is the best bang for your buck.
when you get into performance applications well then dyno and a good dyno tech. will be your friend if you find one treat him like gold because that is the hardest thing to find.ride safe

 

My local hd dealer gives his screaming eagle race tuner customers two double lipped seals and a resleaving bushing for their ***** with free shipping this month only!

 

Congrats. That's more than some get....

 

Iclick and Jamie (FM) have written the bible about PCV/AT and Steve Cole's systems on this forum. They have not been critical of either, but they have pointed out the pluses and minuses of each. Both systems are very good. Just choose the one you like. Enjoy the debate. There are no wrong opinions. What's yours?