111hp/115ft lbs...should I be disappointed?
#71
03-24-2010, 03:53 PM
#72
03-24-2010, 05:54 PM
Road Master
Heatwave, IMO, based solely on the research I have done for my own build and the many tuners i have talked to, the 58mm TB may be a little bloated for your build. Scott, who did my headwork, suggested i go with a 58, but every tuner I talked to told me to stay with the 50 and see what we get on the dyno. They all thought it might be a bloated pig and affect my numbers overall. I have an 08 with the hillside 107 stage 4 build. I just ordered my fatcat with perf wrapped baffle and my bike goes out to dave at JD's on april 1st to get tuned, so I shall see what is what then. What I dont understand is that you say Dave does not tune with SEST!? I run an SEPST, and Dave is well aware of that. He is tuning mine, he even went as far as to tell me that he may keep it another day and have it on the dyno a little longer because it is a little more complex to tune using that tuner. Are you positive about this? I am going to call Dave in the AM just to make sure of this again.
#73
03-24-2010, 06:06 PM
Road Master
Duuuuuude...leave the mans package out of this...he was talking about his motor! LOL...JK
#75
03-24-2010, 07:01 PM
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#76
03-24-2010, 07:16 PM
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Money..Money..Money.. I don't know maaaan.. where does it end?? You buy a harley..You get a rope too. You buy pipes, you get another rope..You buy cams.... guess what? ......... You get another rope. The dyno.... well, I don't think that comes with a rope, that one is a vacuum sucking your pockets dry.. I spent 2k with my set-up and I cut that fricken rope. These are questions you have to ask yourself to figure out where the spending ends.. How does it run? Is it dependable? Does it look and perform better that your buddies that you ride with? And last but not least........ Do you like how it rides?
I know...I know... The spending can never stop with a harley because there is always going to be something new to try or just one more piece of chrome to bolt on... Just jealous of all the money spilling all over this thread.....
I know...I know... The spending can never stop with a harley because there is always going to be something new to try or just one more piece of chrome to bolt on... Just jealous of all the money spilling all over this thread.....
#77
03-24-2010, 07:18 PM
#78
03-24-2010, 07:23 PM
I say this because almost every sportbike rider assumes that a guy that owns a Harley hasn't ridden anything fast , trust me alot of us have plenty of experience on very fast bikes, but makstv5 is right about "enjoy your touring bike" because that is what is all about and if making it faster makes you enjoy it more, have at it!!!
#79
03-24-2010, 07:38 PM
Road Master
I have a 2010 SE Ultra. I dynoed the stock engine before making engine upgrades. The stock 110 was putting out 77hp/100 ftlbs from the factory on the dealer's dynojet.
I made the following engine upgrades:
I decided to upgrade the exhaust and installed the D&D Fat Cat Boss 2:1. Bike was tuned again (dealer offered at no charge after his techs returned from Harley tech school last week). The techs that did the tuning said they have maxed out the ST's limits and there's no more room to improve the performance.
As you can see from the dyno below they did a great job tuning the bike in terms of AFR. 111hp/115ft lbs. Nice broad torque band with 100ft lbs or more from 2700-5700 rpms. It pulls strong all the way to 6000.
The bike rides incredible. Endless torque everywhere. The throttle "pulls" to the rev limiter. Its an explosive ride with excellent slow speed throttle handling. It's everything I thought it would be OTHER than appearing to be delivering far less performance on paper than other identical builds.
Here's my questions:
I made the following engine upgrades:
- headwork done by Hillside (10.5 comp)
- upgraded the injectors to 5.3 gm/sec
- swapped the 50mmThrottlebody for the larger 58mm TB
- replaced the stock air cleaner with the ventilator air cleaner
- installed roller rockers
- installed Woods 408-6 cams
- removed the exhaust Cat and replaced the baffles with Fullsac 2.25" performance baffles
- installed the SuperTuner
I decided to upgrade the exhaust and installed the D&D Fat Cat Boss 2:1. Bike was tuned again (dealer offered at no charge after his techs returned from Harley tech school last week). The techs that did the tuning said they have maxed out the ST's limits and there's no more room to improve the performance.
As you can see from the dyno below they did a great job tuning the bike in terms of AFR. 111hp/115ft lbs. Nice broad torque band with 100ft lbs or more from 2700-5700 rpms. It pulls strong all the way to 6000.
The bike rides incredible. Endless torque everywhere. The throttle "pulls" to the rev limiter. Its an explosive ride with excellent slow speed throttle handling. It's everything I thought it would be OTHER than appearing to be delivering far less performance on paper than other identical builds.
Here's my questions:
- Is the overall HP held back by going to the 58mm TB? I still have the 50mm and could reinstall. The techs and Harley believe the 58mm is too big for a 110 but I struggle to see how it would reduce high end HP. If handling was poor I could blame the 58 but that isn't an issue.
- Is the problem with the tuning software? To date I have yet to see a single 2010 110 that is able to perform better than the graph below. Other tuning shops believe the problem is the new 2010 ST software which is different from the past versions and is not allowing engines to be tuned to their full potential. Some tuners are suggesting I may need to piggy back a Power Commander or other tuning software on top of the ST if my goal is more power.
- Am I leaving alot of performance on the "table"? Should I be disappointed that the engine doesn't appear to be delivering the same level of performance that identical 110 builds from 2009 and older were capable of?
- I'm not really hung up on paper performance other than the fact that it appears to be so much less than other bikes with the identical engine build, which has me wondering how great the performance would be with 10+ more hp and ft-lbs.
Last edited by arealinvestor; 03-24-2010 at 07:48 PM.
#80
03-24-2010, 08:11 PM
My personal opinion: That 58 MM TB is too much for that build. A/F velocity is holding him back. A smaller diameter TB would give more Torque first and the HP will follow.
One other thing to look at; If your VE's values per cylinder are not resonably close after tuning, I would look at getting a cylinder pressure and leak down test done. When I say close, I mean averaging a 10% difference accross all the cells. I'm assuming that the gentleman has a good exhaust system on this bike. If he doesn't, that will hurt the VE values like, well everyone knows that.
One other thing to look at; If your VE's values per cylinder are not resonably close after tuning, I would look at getting a cylinder pressure and leak down test done. When I say close, I mean averaging a 10% difference accross all the cells. I'm assuming that the gentleman has a good exhaust system on this bike. If he doesn't, that will hurt the VE values like, well everyone knows that.
Did you Tell Scott what cam to set those heads up for?? At 10.5 you might be a bit light on comp for that cam with that lift.I would think you might be able to squeeze it for 10.8-11.0 comp.That cam is more of a tq cam.I would run an open element A/C kit with those heads & cam.I would also switch out that Super tuner for the TTS Mastertuner.I think there is more in that build.Call Dave over at JD's Cycleworks & see what he can do for you.I'm almost certain he will find more in the build.If not he will tell you how to get more!!Also the 58mm could be sent to HPI for them to clean it up for better flow.Scott is pretty good with heads,but you have to tell him what you want to run with the heads!!! Also,what baffle on the Fatcat Boss are you running with this build?? You should be running the Big Boar(perforated)baffle!!! Anything else will kill the HP!!! JMHOP
Last edited by producer; 03-24-2010 at 08:24 PM. Reason: more information.