Drain plug o-rings
#41
With the exception of 1 O-ring that was mangled on a new bike at the 1st service I've never had to replace one of these. I look 'em over real good each time a plug comes out, they're always fine. I've never replaced a derby cover gasket or inspection cover gasket either, just clean 'em, inspect 'em and reuse 'em for years and years. No drips, no weeping... just lucky I guess. Still a good idea to have spares laying around, that way you probably won't need 'em.
YMMV.... TL
YMMV.... TL
#43
Correct, they now use the 11105 on all three plugs, but I believe from 04-06 they used the little brown guy. Prior to that they used a tapered plug with no o-ring
#46
I agree that you will find all the documentation you want verifying the temperatures you have stated so I would not argue that with you, but from personal experience and accepted best practice in the fluid power industry one does not run up to temperatures anywhere near what you have quoted. I understand that the temperature limits I have quoted are not down to seal consideration only, but I am saying that the temperature limits I have quoted are when considering seal material limits.
I have personally experienced repairing machines that have been subjected to overheating (90 to 100 degrees in hydraulic systems) and the seals HAVE deteriorated, hardened and leaked. This deterioration can also be quite rapid and the sight is not pretty. This experience is not once or twice, but a number of occasions.
Cost difference between the 2 is pennies, so I struggle to see the point in even considering not using Viton, but that is everyones choice.
I have personally experienced repairing machines that have been subjected to overheating (90 to 100 degrees in hydraulic systems) and the seals HAVE deteriorated, hardened and leaked. This deterioration can also be quite rapid and the sight is not pretty. This experience is not once or twice, but a number of occasions.
Cost difference between the 2 is pennies, so I struggle to see the point in even considering not using Viton, but that is everyones choice.
Leftcoaster posted "A standard Buna o-ring is all that is necessary for the drain plugs." Not my words. I never suggested anyone use anything other than a fluoroelastomer (what you refer to as Viton) oring on the oil pan or tranny lubrication pan. I wouldn't use anything but a fluoroelastomer oring.
While we are on the subject of what I did post, I did take exception to your inaccurate statement regarding Buna N being a brand name, the inaccurate maximum operating temperatures you quoted for Buna N and FKM and and finally I took exception to the fact that Dupont Viton is the only fluoroelastomer oring choice you have.
I don't question for one minute your experience in repairing failed hydraulic systems however that experience doesn't change the facts of this discussion. The temperatures you quoted in your original post were simply inaccurate. And, if you feel your experience in repairing hydraulic systems trumps the facts in this discussion, my experience includes 30+ years in senior management postions for two global manufactures of elastomer sealing devices, specifically gaskets and orings. What could that be worth.
The facts are simply the facts.
#47
The 11105 is the same as a #41 o-ring available at Home Depot, Lowes, etc. plumbing department for around a buck fifty for a dozen. For the 2000 TC88B and others, it fits engine oil and trans drain.
#48
With the exception of 1 O-ring that was mangled on a new bike at the 1st service I've never had to replace one of these. I look 'em over real good each time a plug comes out, they're always fine. I've never replaced a derby cover gasket or inspection cover gasket either, just clean 'em, inspect 'em and reuse 'em for years and years. No drips, no weeping...
#49
I couldn't agree with you more. I never suggested anyone shouldn't use a fluorelastomer oring. I did say you don't need to limit your fluoroelastomer choice to Dupont Viton. You must have read something into my post that wasn't there.
Leftcoaster posted "A standard Buna o-ring is all that is necessary for the drain plugs." Not my words. I never suggested anyone use anything other than a fluoroelastomer (what you refer to as Viton) oring on the oil pan or tranny lubrication pan. I wouldn't use anything but a fluoroelastomer oring.
While we are on the subject of what I did post, I did take exception to your inaccurate statement regarding Buna N being a brand name, the inaccurate maximum operating temperatures you quoted for Buna N and FKM and and finally I took exception to the fact that Dupont Viton is the only fluoroelastomer oring choice you have.
I don't question for one minute your experience in repairing failed hydraulic systems however that experience doesn't change the facts of this discussion. The temperatures you quoted in your original post were simply inaccurate. And, if you feel your experience in repairing hydraulic systems trumps the facts in this discussion, my experience includes 30+ years in senior management postions for two global manufactures of elastomer sealing devices, specifically gaskets and orings. What could that be worth.
The facts are simply the facts.
Leftcoaster posted "A standard Buna o-ring is all that is necessary for the drain plugs." Not my words. I never suggested anyone use anything other than a fluoroelastomer (what you refer to as Viton) oring on the oil pan or tranny lubrication pan. I wouldn't use anything but a fluoroelastomer oring.
While we are on the subject of what I did post, I did take exception to your inaccurate statement regarding Buna N being a brand name, the inaccurate maximum operating temperatures you quoted for Buna N and FKM and and finally I took exception to the fact that Dupont Viton is the only fluoroelastomer oring choice you have.
I don't question for one minute your experience in repairing failed hydraulic systems however that experience doesn't change the facts of this discussion. The temperatures you quoted in your original post were simply inaccurate. And, if you feel your experience in repairing hydraulic systems trumps the facts in this discussion, my experience includes 30+ years in senior management postions for two global manufactures of elastomer sealing devices, specifically gaskets and orings. What could that be worth.
The facts are simply the facts.
Whilst I accept that the max temp declared for Nitrile (Buna-N) is 120 degrees, I did not state that 80 - 90 degrees was a max, but what I, from extensive experience - have found that it is good for. I will stand by that completely and will continue to trust that experience far more than any specification.
I have accepted the temp quoted for Viton (fluorelastomer) in my original post was wrong, I have no idea why I quoted that temp.
As far as your experience is concerned, I guess I could be a cynic and suggest that I wish there was a correlation between level of management and technical expertiese in the big bad world but that would be unfair and also wrong on the basis that you have already pulled my up on a technical error. Suffice to say, I am a graduate engineer with 30 years experience designing complex hydraulic systems and I own a substantial fluid power business, but the main reason I stress the on site experience in my opening post is that I wanted to encourage people to be aware that a "simple" thing like this could turn out to be a real nightmare!!
In summary though, and I am sure we are in agreement on this, please do not use Nitrile and discard them if you do have them.
Also, although not in our direct correspondance, I would seriously discourage the use of PTFE (teflon) tape. The only time I would ever consider using it is to assist sealing on tapered threads.
#50
I couldn't agree with you more. I never suggested anyone shouldn't use a fluorelastomer oring. I did say you don't need to limit your fluoroelastomer choice to Dupont Viton. You must have read something into my post that wasn't there.
Leftcoaster posted "A standard Buna o-ring is all that is necessary for the drain plugs." Not my words. I never suggested anyone use anything other than a fluoroelastomer (what you refer to as Viton) oring on the oil pan or tranny lubrication pan. I wouldn't use anything but a fluoroelastomer oring.
While we are on the subject of what I did post, I did take exception to your inaccurate statement regarding Buna N being a brand name, the inaccurate maximum operating temperatures you quoted for Buna N and FKM and and finally I took exception to the fact that Dupont Viton is the only fluoroelastomer oring choice you have.
I don't question for one minute your experience in repairing failed hydraulic systems however that experience doesn't change the facts of this discussion. The temperatures you quoted in your original post were simply inaccurate. And, if you feel your experience in repairing hydraulic systems trumps the facts in this discussion, my experience includes 30+ years in senior management postions for two global manufactures of elastomer sealing devices, specifically gaskets and orings. What could that be worth.
The facts are simply the facts.
Leftcoaster posted "A standard Buna o-ring is all that is necessary for the drain plugs." Not my words. I never suggested anyone use anything other than a fluoroelastomer (what you refer to as Viton) oring on the oil pan or tranny lubrication pan. I wouldn't use anything but a fluoroelastomer oring.
While we are on the subject of what I did post, I did take exception to your inaccurate statement regarding Buna N being a brand name, the inaccurate maximum operating temperatures you quoted for Buna N and FKM and and finally I took exception to the fact that Dupont Viton is the only fluoroelastomer oring choice you have.
I don't question for one minute your experience in repairing failed hydraulic systems however that experience doesn't change the facts of this discussion. The temperatures you quoted in your original post were simply inaccurate. And, if you feel your experience in repairing hydraulic systems trumps the facts in this discussion, my experience includes 30+ years in senior management postions for two global manufactures of elastomer sealing devices, specifically gaskets and orings. What could that be worth.
The facts are simply the facts.