As long as the tuner is a good tuner with a SERT, I don't see how you could go wrong for $400.

My SERT was useless with the first tuner that installed it. It became very valueable when I found a great tuner.

Dennis

 

I really am pleased with the results I got from the new SEPT. My set-up is a little odd in that I am running true duals with a very quiet set of slip-ons (SE Touring) so they do not flow the best. Also I wanted the bike set to run a bit rich at an idle to keep it cooler when I am stuck in gridlock traffic. My tuner first called me to explain that my setup would not give me big numbers, but once I assured him I was looking for a great running bike, not a great dyno sheet he went to work. It took 41 pulls to get it tuned in properly and the bike runs great, very streatable and much cooler.

The other thing I like about the SEPT is that I can hook it to the bike, ride it for 10 - 15 minutes while it records all the engine parameters and then I can download that info onto the laptop and analyze how the bike is running watching for things like the knock sensor kicking in, or overly lean or rich conditions. Then I can make small adjustments and download those back. Best of all if I screw the pooch I can just reload the map that my tuner created!

It is all about what you want, I like to play around and have been doing DFI in hot rods for years so this is the perfect tool for me.

 

If SEST (formerly SERT) produces better performance, mileage, etc. it is because of the tuner, not the device/software itself. If you plug in the correct AFR and ignition-advance settings it doesn't matter what source you're using--SEST, TTS, PCV, or whatever. Further, I've never seen evidence that SEST, SERT, TTS, T'Max, or the PCV works better than another in this group given a good tune.

As usual for a thread of this type there's plenty of misinformation being thrown around. First, a canned map is accurate for another bike with like equipment assuming a competent tune is performed. If you use an ace tuner in WI and use that map on a like-equipped bike in LA the bike will run as well as one having a custom dyno tune. This is given the tuner is as competent. If not, you may be worse off having a dyno tune over a good competently created canned map. With any of the devices mentioned a good map in one location will be as good the same map on another like-equipped bike in another location, mostly because of the stock sensors on a Delphi-equipped bike.

The standard Delphi ECU has several sensors (MAP, ambient temp, and head temp) and they are very competent in sensing changes in humidity, altitude, and temperature. SEST, TTS, old SERT, and PCV all use these sensors as well as the on-board knock-sensor. IMO all of these methods can be state-of-the-art tuning devices given a good tune is implemented. T'Max uses only part of the MAP sensor's functions and has no knock-sensing capability, which even with its wide-band O2 sensors puts it at a disadvantage, IMO. SEST and TTS are the most powerful of the bunch, but their many features will likely not be used or needed by most owners. The PCV base unit can alter AFR's and ignition advance, as well as offer useful features, some of which are not available with SEST. One that stands out is the map-switch option, where a simple on-off switch can be installed that will toggle between two maps. This is very useful by having a leaner map for mileage and richer map for cooling when the going gets hot.

What is usually omitted in threads like this is mention of the PCV Auto-Tune. SEST uses the stock narrow-band O2 sensors while the PCV-AT uses wide-band sensors that cover the entire RPM/TP range. Closed-loop in SEST/SERT/TTS is only effective up to about 50% TP, so specific targeting of AFR's by using table variables is not possible outside closed-loop mode, and thus WOT works only in open-loop with these. For this reason a dyno tune is almost always necessary. With the PCV-AT in the picture other tuners lose their luster, as with its advanced features may now be the most advanced EFI controller on the market. A feature list can be seen on the PC site.

The big variable that I think puts the basic PCV (no AT) on the top of the heap in value for the dollar is the availability of good maps from Fuel Moto. FM is a well-respected dyno-tuning facility in WI and has hundreds of maps available for Harleys and other MC's. These maps have been shown to be very accurate from hundreds of testimonials from users. In my case the map created on an '07 RK in WI was accurate for my '07 SG in LA, proven by the trims created by Auto-Tune. If trims are small or null the original base map is accurate for that bike given the target AFR's specified. In my case they were off no more than 1% in any cell in the base-map and trim tables.

The PCV-AT allows you to plug in target AFR's throughout the RPM range, not just part of it like you get with SEST and similar devices. Further, you can start with a zeroed map and ride the bike. In a short time of operation in all RPM/TP ranges you have created an accurate trim table for your bike and equipment. When you "Accept Trims" the trim values are written to the base map and you have a spot-on base map from which to run from then on. Add new cams? Just ride the bike and it will auto-tune again, and on and on. The map-switch function is especially useful because you can create a richer map for best cooling, then accept trims to create a new base map, then specify leaner target AFR's to run most of the time for better gas mileage. When the going gets hot you can switch to the richer base map to cool things down, all on the fly. SEST, TTS, SERT, and T'max can't do this.

 

Thanks everbody for the replies i ended up going with the PCV from Fuel Moto. I talked to Jamie and the ability to later on add a auto tune kit to the PCV was the deal breaker. The set up of the PCV with auto tune and the wide band o2 sensors sealed the deal. Also he said they dyno tuned the same set up i have. They also have the exact map for it. 29006-09 SE heavy breather air cleaner kit. 80732-09 SE 09 non cat Touring street perfomance mufflers. Also the ability for me to tweek it if i want to and not have to go back to the dealer.

 

I just got mine new from the dealer. The SERT itself cost that much. I haven't even finished the break in period, or got the final tune done, but the bike runs awesome. I think you are getting a deal, and why not have it done. Like someone else said: we spend too much money on these bikes not to have them run properly.

S

 

I think you'll not regret that decision. I used a PCIII and later a PCV initially with no AT for two years and found them very competent devices that can be tweaked effectively by the owner. AT is a step beyond in that you can specify AFR's rather than merely percentages of increase or decrease over the base map, but you can tweak your map in this way by using your own senses as indicators. You listen for detonation; feel for surging, heat, and performance issues; etc. AT is good for advanced tweakers and those who will be making incremental changes to their configuration (cams, etc.).

 

Should have never waited to do the PC v. bikes runs great and i am getting about 50 to 52 miles a gal. You can't beat that. I was getting around 48 49 a gal.

 

These SERT and their newer derivitives are meant to be used in a racing environment. Screaming Eagle Race Tuner. My thought on these devices has always been that if you are going to be flat tracking your bagger on Sunday afternoon with your wifey on the back, then you can probably get a few extra HP out of your motor. It is gross overkill in my opinion.
If, on the other hand, you rarely if ever race your bike (like 99.5% of us) and want a nice kick in the pants when you crank it on get a device like the TFI. TFIs are plug and play on the new bikes and are demand oriented. When you crank it on and the on board computer senses this, it widens out the fuel squirt and you get the kick in the pants you wanted. I got mine for $150.00 (military vet discount), others pay $250.00 I think.