I need some Motor Head advice
#11
03-16-2009, 06:47 AM
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upgrading
well it depends how you ride....right off the top an easy one is you have true-duals,
look great but you arent going to get any real power out of them, and specificly you are
losing low end torque right at the start....if you want performance, 2 into 1 is the way to go, (yes looks and sounds wrong, but facts are facts) if you want the dual look
it has to have a crossover or be similar to the new 09's style of 2 into 1 into 2...otherwise
you can cam up and such all you like but it wont get you there any faster....you will have to look hard at how you ride and what you are looking for, and then you can really dial in
some wisely spent dollars and get what will really appreciate...
low end power
mid range power
riding 2 up (torque)
high end power
pick yer poison...
Bill
look great but you arent going to get any real power out of them, and specificly you are
losing low end torque right at the start....if you want performance, 2 into 1 is the way to go, (yes looks and sounds wrong, but facts are facts) if you want the dual look
it has to have a crossover or be similar to the new 09's style of 2 into 1 into 2...otherwise
you can cam up and such all you like but it wont get you there any faster....you will have to look hard at how you ride and what you are looking for, and then you can really dial in
some wisely spent dollars and get what will really appreciate...
low end power
mid range power
riding 2 up (torque)
high end power
pick yer poison...
Bill
#12
03-16-2009, 06:08 PM
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When I built my motor I found out that I was limited to the power I was gonna get without someone working on the heads, No matter what kind of cams/air cleaner/exhaust, etc. you do it will be limited, you gotta have head work to get in the 100HP range. I found most head guys charge $600-$1000 to do a port job. Also, most guys on here that have hot rod engines have adj. pushrods and I have never heard of them failing on the street (mine will probably break today). I spent upwards of $4500 doing my engine upgrade, which I think is about the norm. Gary
I am really not looking to join the 100 + HP club. Not that it is a bad thing. I just want a little bit more power without the need to do head work, valves, or pushrods. I just want a little more in the cam area, and maybe take the next jump for an air cleaner. I kind of like the Screaming Eagle that has an open filter and you can buy a sock for it, can't remember the name of right now.
Bob
#13
03-16-2009, 06:39 PM
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Bob, I have Head Quarters' HQ-0034 (the pre-'07 version of the HQ500) cams in my '04 otherwise stock EG with Rinehart TD's and SE a/c. They've been in for 2+/20K miles and haven't thought about a 95" build since. They have an intake close of 36* which moves the torque earlier than comparable cams with 40* intake close.
You can use your stock push rods (I did) and tubes; or, good adjustables.
However, your goal of good torque from 1700 to 5800 is unrealistic without a really, really good set of fully ported heads. First, I don't ride at 1700. The Head-Quarters cams will be really good from 2250 or so to 5K.
The SE 203 cams are a waste of money IMO. Better than stock for sure, but weak compared to other popular aftermarket cams. I have buddies with SE BB 95" SE 203 cams and my bike runs stronger than their's.
Good luck with your project.
You can use your stock push rods (I did) and tubes; or, good adjustables.
However, your goal of good torque from 1700 to 5800 is unrealistic without a really, really good set of fully ported heads. First, I don't ride at 1700. The Head-Quarters cams will be really good from 2250 or so to 5K.
The SE 203 cams are a waste of money IMO. Better than stock for sure, but weak compared to other popular aftermarket cams. I have buddies with SE BB 95" SE 203 cams and my bike runs stronger than their's.
Good luck with your project.
Are you running the Gear Drive or the Chain Drive cam set? I was reading on their web site for this.
I don't know very much about the difference between the Gear and Chain set, what would be the plus side of going to a gear set over a chain with the extra cost of it?
Bob
#14
03-16-2009, 09:14 PM
Extreme HDF Member
The gear set eliminates the cam chain tensioners which is a wear item and subject to premature failures causing severe engine damage. HD now has a better system that is available that is similar to the hydraulic tensioner system used on '07 and newer Touring models.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
#15
03-16-2009, 10:21 PM
I have ridden the hills of Northern Georgia with Harleypingman and three other HQ 95ST builds, and can tell you that he had no problems keeping up with us, and we were not timid about the accelerations
I don't think you could be disapointed with the HQ-0034 cam in a stock 88 motor.........Just saying........
I don't think you could be disapointed with the HQ-0034 cam in a stock 88 motor.........Just saying........The gear set eliminates the cam chain tensioners which is a wear item and subject to premature failures causing severe engine damage. HD now has a better system that is available that is similar to the hydraulic tensioner system used on '07 and newer Touring models.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
Last edited by buttman; 03-16-2009 at 11:35 PM.
#16
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
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The gear set eliminates the cam chain tensioners which is a wear item and subject to premature failures causing severe engine damage. HD now has a better system that is available that is similar to the hydraulic tensioner system used on '07 and newer Touring models.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
I used the chain version of the HQ cams and replaced the stock tensioners rather than spend the $400 or so for the gear drive kit.
Gears require a crankshaft that has .002 or less runout IIRC.
Can you explain this a little bit more? I like the idea of ther Gear Drive Cam setup, but not sure with the above part of what you said. I would not want to order everything only to have a bigger problem.
Bob
#17
03-17-2009, 09:30 AM
Extreme HDF Member
"Runout" is basically a measurement of crankshaft "wobble." When you attach a gear to the crankshaft, that wobble is transferred to the gear causing the gear to wobble. When that gear meshes with another gear, the wobble will cause the crankshaft gear to move back and forth from its high point to its low point relative to the other gear. Excessive wobble (i.e. more than .002") will cause binding/broken gear teeth/metal shavings etc. between the two gears due to the back and forth movement of the wobbling gear.
Another way to visualize this is an axle in a car. If it's straight, the wheels will rotate without wobble. If the axle is not straight, the tires will wobble as the axle rotates.
Runout is basically a measurement of the crankshaft's straightness or lack of straightness.
If you do a search, you will find threads with pictures showing crankshaft runout being measured by a dial indicator. PM Dalton. He has pictures of how to measure runout and can provide additional information. And he's a good guy willing to help.
Another way to visualize this is an axle in a car. If it's straight, the wheels will rotate without wobble. If the axle is not straight, the tires will wobble as the axle rotates.
Runout is basically a measurement of the crankshaft's straightness or lack of straightness.
If you do a search, you will find threads with pictures showing crankshaft runout being measured by a dial indicator. PM Dalton. He has pictures of how to measure runout and can provide additional information. And he's a good guy willing to help.
#18
03-17-2009, 09:41 AM
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"Runout" is basically a measurement of crankshaft "wobble." When you attach a gear to the crankshaft, that wobble is transferred to the gear causing the gear to wobble. When that gear meshes with another gear, the wobble will cause the crankshaft gear to move back and forth from its high point to its low point relative to the other gear. Excessive wobble (i.e. more than .002") will cause binding/broken gear teeth/metal shavings etc. between the two gears due to the back and forth movement of the wobbling gear.
Another way to visualize this is an axle in a car. If it's straight, the wheels will rotate without wobble. If the axle is not straight, the tires will wobble as the axle rotates.
Runout is basically a measurement of the crankshaft's straightness or lack of straightness.
If you do a search, you will find threads with pictures showing crankshaft runout being measured by a dial indicator. PM Dalton. He has pictures of how to measure runout and can provide additional information. And he's a good guy willing to help.
Another way to visualize this is an axle in a car. If it's straight, the wheels will rotate without wobble. If the axle is not straight, the tires will wobble as the axle rotates.
Runout is basically a measurement of the crankshaft's straightness or lack of straightness.
If you do a search, you will find threads with pictures showing crankshaft runout being measured by a dial indicator. PM Dalton. He has pictures of how to measure runout and can provide additional information. And he's a good guy willing to help.
So reading between the line here it would be better to go with the Chain Cam setup, then I would not have to deal with the "RunOut" ??
Sorry about all the questions, i just want to do this right.
Bob
#19
03-17-2009, 10:11 AM
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www.head-quarters-usa.com will take you to the usa site. Dig around on there and see if you can get ahold of Doug, the owner. When I built my motor, I called him and asked him several questions which he clearly answered. He never tried to sell me anything or push any parts of any kind on me. VERY honest and straight forward kind of guy.
If you don't want to do heads or anything else much, I agree that I would get the HQ-0034 chain drive cams. As far a pushrods, a good set of adjustables won't hurt you. If your Indy's experience with pushrods is from a racing vantage, then I can see why he would have seen them break. Everything breaks in racing.
If you don't want to do heads or anything else much, I agree that I would get the HQ-0034 chain drive cams. As far a pushrods, a good set of adjustables won't hurt you. If your Indy's experience with pushrods is from a racing vantage, then I can see why he would have seen them break. Everything breaks in racing.
#20
03-17-2009, 11:00 AM
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www.head-quarters-usa.com will take you to the usa site. Dig around on there and see if you can get ahold of Doug, the owner. When I built my motor, I called him and asked him several questions which he clearly answered. He never tried to sell me anything or push any parts of any kind on me. VERY honest and straight forward kind of guy.
If you don't want to do heads or anything else much, I agree that I would get the HQ-0034 chain drive cams. As far a pushrods, a good set of adjustables won't hurt you. If your Indy's experience with pushrods is from a racing vantage, then I can see why he would have seen them break. Everything breaks in racing.
If you don't want to do heads or anything else much, I agree that I would get the HQ-0034 chain drive cams. As far a pushrods, a good set of adjustables won't hurt you. If your Indy's experience with pushrods is from a racing vantage, then I can see why he would have seen them break. Everything breaks in racing.
Thank you for the info.
Bob