Having known of Nightrider for several years and used their tuning advice on the CV carbs, I tend to trust what they have to say.
I understand Glens' issues, especially concerning the lack of greater introduction of fuel in the upper RPM levels, (after installing a stage 1, etc). But my questions are these.
1. how much time does anyone spend in the upper RPM levels? These aren't drag bikes, but street machines.
2. if it's ok for the factory to run 14.7:1 in the normal operating range then why shouldn't things work fine, (for that tempoary period), after the install of the better breather? I have no idea what the fuel ratio is altered to or what effect the better breather has, but I do know if the mixture gets too thin, the bike will stall.
3. Has anyone done a fuel ratio check, (dyno) before and after for the higher levels? If so, what kind of numbers were produced?
My thoughts are these, without real data, we're all just beating a dead horse. I like the idea and trust the source. Others may not. But I'm no more justified professing the IED's than anyone else is berating them. At least not without the raw data.

 

There have been several postings of dyno runs in conjunction with the IEDs. They are largely inconclusive in and of themselves because of the way they were run. Doing a "full power" pull in 4th gear from 2500 rpm really doesn't indicate any changes brought about by them, for instance.

If you get or borrow something that can datalog your engine (SERT/SEST/TTS/TwinScan,etc.) you'll find that you go out of "closed-loop" operation a lot sooner than you'd think in the lower gears, so I'd imagine folks spend more time "open-loop" than they realize.

Another factor to add to the list of "unresolved" is what the closed-loop Delphis do in terms of the "adaptive fueling" they perform. While closed-loop, there are several points where, when the target AFR is not met (as determined by the O2 sensor output), the necessary fueling changes are kept-track-of, and are somehow amalgamated into the somewhat mysterious "AFV"s. The question has never been completely answered as to what the Delphi does with this information even when it's operating open-loop in an rpm/throttle area where the effective airflow changes were recorded, much less one where they were not. My experience leads me to believe these changes are transferred into open-loop.

Now if the changes needed open-loop by a freer-breathing airbox were exactly what was provided by the IEDs in conjunction with the AFVs, it'd be rosy. Last I heard, Steve was in the "the AFVs don't affect open-loop" camp, which always seemed to me to be in opposition to what he'd want to have happen. Unless the devices are used on an otherwise-"correctly"-tuned engine, then they'd add unnecessary fuel open-loop.

In the TTS software/maps, you can compare VE tables between a "stock" and a "stage 1" setup. This is fairly eye-opening. No matter how the IED/AFV thing works, the result will not be what's necessary when what's really needed is a change to the VE/spark tables.

Get your VE tables right and your adaptive fuel mechanism will "stay centered" better.

 

I forgot to mention that I have looked through the nightrider site and find that I agree with much, heck, most of the information he presents. Even his section on EFI correctly states that breathing changes necessitate EFI programming changes. Of course when asked about that he states it was written "pre closed-loop EFI" and now somehow our narrow-band O2 sensors are supposed to correct the tune for open intakes, etc. The basis for this impression seems to be a late '06 issue of the Enthusiast. Remember when sometime not too long ago they also stated use of non-H-D oil could "impact your warranty"? They were soundly trounced on that one and printed a follow-up. If the bit about the closed-loop EFI being so "self-healing" were true, isn't it quite odd that H-D isn't still whistling that tune?

 

Glen,
I can understand your frustration, but in my case riding an 07 SE 110 CVO , I have approx 20K miles and I doubt if my engine has reached open loop for more then 5 minutes the entire time, I have the OEM air box and Street performance mufflers, with the IED's in place I have improved drivability and lowerer operating temperatures, for riders like me they are a great upgrade at a reasonable price.

 

Ron,

Your setup is exactly what I've been saying all along the standard IEDs would be great for. My issues are with the other IEDs which take the mixture too far and when any of them are relied-upon to help "tune" for opened intakes.

 

SUMMARY OF ALL SPOKEN:

XIED CABLES (FOR):
- Slightly heat.
- More power.
- More torque.
- Motor suffers less.

CABLES XIED (AGAINST):
- More fuel consumption?
- Is there anything else against?.

 

Only at part-throttle (50% and below) when in closed-loop mode. See below.

I know this is an old thread, but in case someone else is considering IED's or their variants here are some thoughts. I would vote no unless you will do no more than change mufflers, and even then I would advise against it. IED's affect only closed-loop mode, which is about 0-50% throttle-position and below about 3500 rpms. Above that you will be running in open-loop mode and the IED's will not affect anything, which means you will be running lean in those areas and performance will suffer if you add a free-flowing AC. HD does not recommend running a stock configuration such as yours with AC and mufflers, and in open-loop mode you will be doing that even with IED's installed.

You could do the HD Stage 1 download with the IED addition, which would put you in a safe area in open-loop, but that will cost you ~$150. Couple that with the $125 (or whatever) that you will spend on the IED's and you could buy a real tuner like a PCV. The effect will be a bit better performance be nowhere near as good as a good tuner with an accurate map.

IED's should decrease heat, increase throttle response a bit, and decrease gas mileage while you are in closed-loop mode. In open loop you will run no better than stock if you add only mufflers and worse if you add both mufflers and AC.

Call Fuel Moto and talk it over with them. They don't sell IED's AFAIK but do offer most other tuners and will not BS you.

 

i had the XIED's and its was a cheaper solution. They do work and made scoot feel cooler and better throttle response and wouldnt go into EITMS as often compared to stock..Upgraded to the PCV one year later becasue it gave me the option to tune for best performance. ICLICK is "the Man".. great experience and help thoughout the HDFORUM in my opionion. Spend a little more money and do it right the first time.. Fuelmoto has great service ,and already has a map for ure application , and has great customer service.
we spend top $$ for our HD,s , the PCV from FM ,is one of my best investments so far on keeping my bike performance and mileage to its peak.. Yes there are many other fuel mangement products out there.. you choose what you think is best for your application and experience. thats the hard part !!!..

 

So there are no engine damage by wearing wires XIED?.