103 Stage II
#11
10-16-2008 | 07:47 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,350
Likes: 461
From: Illinois
I'm probably going to be the only one that is going to tell you this, but I always try to be straight up with any opinions I give.
I had an 07 that I put the 103 in. I did the SE heads, roller rockers with supports, SERT, 255 cams, Fat Cat, 90 degree high flow air cleaner, etc. It was about $4,000.00 worth of work and goodies. In my mind, it never delivered what I had hoped for. And maybe I wasn't being realistic about what the finished product was going to be, but it wasn't the right tool for me.
The gas mileage, in my opinion, sucked. After doing a careful tune on the bike, a couple of times, the bike would average 33 mpg on the highway at normal cruising speeds running solo with no gear. 2 up and any head wind at all would push it as low as 29. Granted, if I would have had a 6 gallon tank it would have helped a little, but where I live, there are loops where that kind of fuel range was useless. I did a 4000 mile vacation this year with two other Road Kings. One was an 01 with a 95 injected and the other was a stock, carbed 04. Both bikes got better mileage than I did, at all times, in all conditions. And when I took a run at the 95ci just to prove that more cubic inches is always a good thing, he handed me my ***.
As far as how the bike ran, it ran hard and quick above 3000 rpm, all the way to redline. But that isn't where I was trying to run most of the time. Having a 6 speed and a motor that only pulled hard above 3000 was kind of self defeating, for me. And my seat of the pants dyno never felt that the 103 was ever any better than the 96 at getting the bike off the line.
Long story short.....I won't break down another motor without going at least 110. And it will be built from the ground up for torque. Like I said, that is just my experience and I am not trying push you away from the 103, just offering another opinion.
Good luck.
I had an 07 that I put the 103 in. I did the SE heads, roller rockers with supports, SERT, 255 cams, Fat Cat, 90 degree high flow air cleaner, etc. It was about $4,000.00 worth of work and goodies. In my mind, it never delivered what I had hoped for. And maybe I wasn't being realistic about what the finished product was going to be, but it wasn't the right tool for me.
The gas mileage, in my opinion, sucked. After doing a careful tune on the bike, a couple of times, the bike would average 33 mpg on the highway at normal cruising speeds running solo with no gear. 2 up and any head wind at all would push it as low as 29. Granted, if I would have had a 6 gallon tank it would have helped a little, but where I live, there are loops where that kind of fuel range was useless. I did a 4000 mile vacation this year with two other Road Kings. One was an 01 with a 95 injected and the other was a stock, carbed 04. Both bikes got better mileage than I did, at all times, in all conditions. And when I took a run at the 95ci just to prove that more cubic inches is always a good thing, he handed me my ***.
As far as how the bike ran, it ran hard and quick above 3000 rpm, all the way to redline. But that isn't where I was trying to run most of the time. Having a 6 speed and a motor that only pulled hard above 3000 was kind of self defeating, for me. And my seat of the pants dyno never felt that the 103 was ever any better than the 96 at getting the bike off the line.
Long story short.....I won't break down another motor without going at least 110. And it will be built from the ground up for torque. Like I said, that is just my experience and I am not trying push you away from the 103, just offering another opinion.
Good luck.
7,000 miles later, I finally found a good tuner. Now I get 40 to 45 mpg instead of 25 to 30 and the bike runs really good.
The 255 cams are about as good as you can get from SE for getting off the line. TQ building is their selling point. Mine makes 107 tq and will smoke any stock 96ci, as it should. If you aren't getting a night and day difference from stock, something isn't right with your build or your tune.
Dennis
#12
10-16-2008 | 09:24 AM
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Evans, GA
rochkes - are you using the SE Pro Twin Cam 103+ heads with the 98cc combustion chamber and the 103+ (10.5-1) pistons? I'm getting ready to do the same build (heads/pistons) but decided to use the HQ-500 cams after a little research and some discussions with Keith at HQ. At what RPM are you getting the 109 ft/lbs torque? Which compression releases did you use, manual or automatic?
#13
10-16-2008 | 10:59 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,350
Likes: 461
From: Illinois
GA,
I bought the bike with the street legal 103" kit installed. 7,000 miles later I found an HD dealer I had more confidence in and they were going to dyno tune my bike properly for a flat fee of $280. I talked to the tech and decided if I was going to have to take my bike 100 miles from home to get this done, I would do a little extra while I was there.
He recommended adding the 103+ heads and forged, domed 10.5:1 pistons. He recommended I stay away from the automatic compression releases for two reasons. 1. they have a tendancy to stick, either open or closed. 2. The bike starts best with this build if you open both releases when it is cold or moderately warm. It actually starts much easier when you only release the back on when it is hot. I mean really hot.
He said he knew several other cams that would build more hp, but he thought this would be a good combination for tq. It was the first build he ever did with this exact combination. He now recommends this build for all baggers who want high tq and stay with SE parts.
I bought the bike with the street legal 103" kit installed. 7,000 miles later I found an HD dealer I had more confidence in and they were going to dyno tune my bike properly for a flat fee of $280. I talked to the tech and decided if I was going to have to take my bike 100 miles from home to get this done, I would do a little extra while I was there.
He recommended adding the 103+ heads and forged, domed 10.5:1 pistons. He recommended I stay away from the automatic compression releases for two reasons. 1. they have a tendancy to stick, either open or closed. 2. The bike starts best with this build if you open both releases when it is cold or moderately warm. It actually starts much easier when you only release the back on when it is hot. I mean really hot.
He said he knew several other cams that would build more hp, but he thought this would be a good combination for tq. It was the first build he ever did with this exact combination. He now recommends this build for all baggers who want high tq and stay with SE parts.
#14
10-16-2008 | 11:17 AM
Cruiser
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 221
Likes: 3
From: Texas/Arkansas border
Ok folks, I feel compelled to jump in here. I had an '03 Fatboy bumped up to a 95ci with all the SE parts, HTTC heads, complete HD build except I used S&S gear drive cams. Great combo, made 103hp, 99ftlbs torque, got better than 40mpg consistanly. I moved up to an '07 Ultra with a stock 96ci, made decent power, but no comparision to the Fatboy. Lots of difference in the bikes, I understand, but BIG difference in the power. I, too am in the market for an upgrade on my '07 Ultra, but doubt I'll go the SE route, mostly due to high cost for what you get. I am looking for low end pulling power and after much research, here is what I have found and am leaning towards. My only hold up is wanting to hear from more folks who may be familiar with this set up and the people who sell it. Automotive Machine Supply in Ft. Worth, TX offers a kit from my engine, bumps up to 105ci, cnc ported heads, jugs, gaskets, Andrews cams, lifters, in other words, everything you need to do the job for just less than $1600.(your heads and cylinders exchange) Sounds really good, just need to hear more folks opinion. Check out their web page. They advertise in American Iron magazine and others, they paint a good picture, I would like to know more before I jump. Any thoughts?
#15
10-16-2008 | 11:40 AM
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,350
Likes: 461
From: Illinois
paco,
The price is sure right on that build.............. They will get real popular real fast if they do good work at that price.
I was quoted $1,000 to $1,400 just to port and polish my heads. That's the main reason I bought the SE 103+ heads for $800 and put my stock heads on the shelf.
Dennis
The price is sure right on that build.............. They will get real popular real fast if they do good work at that price.
I was quoted $1,000 to $1,400 just to port and polish my heads. That's the main reason I bought the SE 103+ heads for $800 and put my stock heads on the shelf.
Dennis
#16
10-16-2008 | 12:08 PM
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 630
Likes: 1
From:
#18
10-16-2008 | 01:17 PM
Advanced
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
From: Evans, GA
I bought the Stage II big bore kit on EBay for $535.00 NIB. I already have buyers for the parts I’m not going to use, flat top pistons, air cleaner kit, and SE-255 cams. By the time I’m done the jugs, clutch spring, and gaskets will have cost me about $150.00. The remaining parts, including 103+ heads, 103+ forged pistons, adjustable pushrods, high tensile cylinder studs, automatic compression releases and wiring harness, cam install kit, SE big twin compensator, etc, etc, was about $1600.00 from Zanotti. I spent another $400.00 for the HQ-500 cams and lifters from Head-Quarters. The install will be about $400.00 with my help (local independent shop). A couple of my friends get some discounted parts and the independent shop gets all the install work. Everybody is happy.
#19
10-16-2008 | 02:34 PM
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
From: Oklahoma
I believe this goes along with the original posters request... Does anyone have any info/results on the SE Stage 3 or Stage 4 kits in the 2009 SE catalog? I guess you already need to have the SE high flow air cleaner and exhaust system to make these 2 work.
The part numbers for the 2 kits are..... Stage 4 - 27516-08 Stage 3 - 27513-08. Both kits come with the SE Race Tuner for what seems to be a reasonable price. If you get the kit from one of the online dealers that give 20% its seems like a pretty good deal. I see the HP/TQ curves that Harley issues in the catalog and if they are anywhere near correct the price for the results seems good (Stage 3 says somewhere around 95HP/105TQ for $1200). I was leaning towards the Stage 3 kits then picking whatever heads I want. Any info would be great..
The part numbers for the 2 kits are..... Stage 4 - 27516-08 Stage 3 - 27513-08. Both kits come with the SE Race Tuner for what seems to be a reasonable price. If you get the kit from one of the online dealers that give 20% its seems like a pretty good deal. I see the HP/TQ curves that Harley issues in the catalog and if they are anywhere near correct the price for the results seems good (Stage 3 says somewhere around 95HP/105TQ for $1200). I was leaning towards the Stage 3 kits then picking whatever heads I want. Any info would be great..
