08 vs 09
#51
09-05-2008, 06:00 PM
Damn, I'm not sure I want to jump in here, but I guess I will. I demo'd an '09 CVO Road Glide last week in Milwaukee and I was shocked by how rough the ride was. I ride an '07 Street Glide now, and ride aside, I really want that CVO! But I was curious why the ride was so stiff. I thought it had to do with it being a CVO, but is that it, or the larger wheel, or is it the new touring bikes overall are just stiffer?
#52
09-05-2008, 06:30 PM
As above, air pressure REALLY matters. At least in MY opinion. And the 09s need a lot less air than prev years. Put what you would have put in an 08 into an 09, and yep, harsh/stiff ride. They are NOT the same shocks, and cant be handled as if they were if you want good results.
Thanks. I don't have any idea what the shocks were at, but I suspect they had them set on the stiff side (for couples that demo'd two-up). Gotta' admit, that 110 really moves out....
#53
09-05-2008, 06:45 PM
I commute 30 miles up I-80 to work. (segmented concrete highway) When I ran 20-25 lbs in my 09, I felt every segment joint. Dropped it down to 5-8 lbs, smooth as silk.
#54
09-05-2008, 07:43 PM
Im gonna try and sum this up without it going 5 pages. These are MY opinions, and in no way am I trying to slam/bash ANY previous year of HD Bagger.
Ive owned an 03, 05, 07, and now 09 HD bagger. First two were EG Classics, second two were Street Glides. So pretty much the same bike, aside from the yearly changes. Prior to that, Ive owned several other bikes, the more recent once being a Honda VTX1800, and Yamaha Venture Royal 1300 from 1986. I mention those to illustrate that I have owned bikes with different/better traits in some regards. For example, though the VTX1800 rode like sh*t, (bucking bronco) it tracked like it was on rails.
The 07 SG had both a true-track stabilizer, and the IDS added.
There were two things that made me sell my year and a half old 07.
The new frame, and Brembo/ABS.
Both, in my opinion, are HUGE improvements over what they replaced. The stabilty (or lack thereof) of the HD bagger line, has been a gripe of mine since I bought the first one. But the bike did so many other things so well, I figured I would just learn to live with it. Lets face it, they needed the improvement, and have for a LONG time. That frame has been around a LONG time, and though its been tweaked and improved, it needed a re-do.
I took my wife out this past weekend, and we did about 240 miles. Now, Im 220 and she is about 140. This was the FIRST ride I had ever taken her on (on a Harley) where I did not feel like the bike was pushing the limits of its abilities to carry 2 mid sized people. Not to a dangerous extent mind you, but to the extend of wondering why my 1 year old bike felt less stable than my 20 year old Venture when two up. Not only is the bike much better handling, and far more stable on the slab, but it finally feels like it has the underpinnings to really be a 2-up TOURING bike to me.
My 03, 05, and 07 always got the job done, but there was always that little feeling of wiggle, waggle, and wander. We all know its there. We try to pretend its not, but we know it is. We get used to it, we try to accept it as a normal part of an HD bagger, but it IS there. I had a Harley SALESMAN tell me, after owning a Fatboy and then a Roadking (which He sold) that he would NEVER go back to a touring bike until they "fix that f*cking frame!)
Not to mention the rear shocks being pumped to the max, and STILL feeling mushy and saggy with the wife on the back. Strictly from a load carrying and handling standpoint, especially 2 up, my 1986 Yamaha Venture Royal was a better touring bike than any of my first 3 Harleys.
Ill be honest, the first 3 I owned, each time before I bought, I test rode GL1800s. I never bought one, because of the style of the bike, and the uncomfortable riding/leg position, but I came damn close. Its very hard to arque with the perfomace of that bike. Likewise, I tested a Victory Vision. Looks aside, that was a VERY well handling and stable touring bike. The Harleys won me over in the end, 4 times, Because I wanted a motorcycle, not a 2 wheeled recreational vehicle (Goldwing) or a bike from the Jetsons (Vision) But purely from a performance/handling standpoint, part of me still considered the Goldwing each and every time, and would have considered the Vision as well. From PERFORMANCE standpoint only.
Not anymore.
I can finally say I have the Harley I always wanted. Since my 03, they have pretty much addressed each and every gripe I have had. (except the price tag). I will no longer wonder if maybe I should have bought the Wing. Although, I STILL say they should put the 103 motor in the baggers standard. (my 07 was a 103)
The 09s are that much better.
The brakes are better. Even without ABS (but you know this).
The suspension is better. They raised the weight limit 100 pounds for crying out loud. Thats a HUGE increase in capacity for a motorcycle.
The HANDLING, both at speed in twisties, and at slow speed, is better.
Its more stable at speed in a strait line. I think thats the 2” wider rear tire.
Do you realize that they have completly ELIMINATED the “powertrain alignment” proceddure on the 09? What does that tell you? Tells me its no longer a problem that need to be addressed.
The GEARING is better. No more feeling like every gear is too tall. No more lurching off stops or compensator rattling inside the primary. 6ths gear becomes usable at 60mph, not 70-75 (really). Remember, I DID have an IDS on my 07.
The front tire no longer wants to hop off the ground at idle. You DO still feel the V-twin thumping under you, but the BIKE is no longer shaking like its having a fit. At speed, its the smoothest HD I have EVER riden. NOTICABLEY smoother. Again, you still feel the THUMP of the motor, but the buzzing VIBRATIONS are down 80 percent.
I WONT compare directlly on heat issues, until I ride mine AFTER its been dyno tuned (just got done) I will say it was pretty hot for the first few hundred, but cooled down noticably each 100 miles after that as the motor broke in. I feel that after the tune, and changing to SYN3, heat will not be an issue. But I cannot truely compare the two, because I never rode my 07 when it was stock. It was a 103 stage 2 and had true dual headers from day one. So its not fair for me to compare to that. I can say that there is NO heat on the left side. What heat is on the right side, I think is the motor, not the exhaust. With the motor tuned properly, and running SYN3, in addition to being broken in, I think heat will be a non issue. I STILL say, ANYONE buying one of these bikes should just plan on a fuel manager, and a tune.
Little things, like moving the saddlebags back 1/2 inch so they dont dig into my wifes calves anymore. Improving the rider backrest mounting brackets. My wife says the tourpak sits slightly higher and further back, giving her more room that she has ever had, and better back support. I keep finding little things like that, which show they WERE thinking about this stuff.
Now, you have changed bikes almost as often as I have. Some people would call that stupid. Maybe they are right. And god knows, Ive paid the price in the wallet to keep inching upwards. I NEVER would have expected the changes in 07, 08, and 09. I thought when the new motor/tranny came in 07, that would be it for major changes for a while. Boy, was I wrong. But BOTH of us kept chaning bikes for a reason, in my case because I just was not quite happy with what I had.
While some people would call us stupid, what I feel is stupid, is paying over $20,000 for a bike, and NOT being as happy with it as you can be. Thats why I paid MORE for my SG that I would have for an Ultra, after adding the tourpak, etc. Because in the end, its what I really, wanted. And I will pay another silly $15/month to do that. I did NOT want the wheels or the pinstripes of the Ultra. And I KNEW it would bug the sh*t out of me for years if I did go that route.
So in the end, what is more stupid. Paying a little more, and truely being HAPPY with what you have, or compramising and always wishing you would not have.
I just decided that look, Im gonna be making payments on this bike for a LONG time. Is my 07 really the bike I want to commit to for the next 6-1/2 years of payments?
I feel my 09 is.
My 07 was a great bike, as Im sure your 08 is, as Im sure lots of peoples 05, 01, and others are. But the bottom line is, my 09 IS that much better. And while It may be stupid financially on paper to take the loss I did to move to the 09, in the end, I lost all the stupid little things I did not like about the 07 as well, that bugged me every time I rode it. And it was worth every cent of that, TO ME. I got what I owed on it, and I sold it. I lost a lot of money in Accessories, but I knew as I was buying them that I would never see that money back. Im not the kind of guy who keeps a running balance sheet in his head, expecting to break even on this stuff, and feeling screwed if I dont.
Anyway, I feel, that yes, the 09 is THAT much better of a bike. I can afford it, and I did it, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I suggest you go ride one, BUT, ride one that is at least broken in, because at least in my case, mine WAS pretty hot at first. So If you ride some demo bike with 300 miiles on it, expect that.
Ill let you know next week if the dyno tune/syn3 have impoved it further.
I will sum it up with a statement I made in another thread:
Just because the 09s are better, does not mean that pre-09 bikes are crap. BUT, just because pre-09 bikes are not crap, does NOT mean that 09 bikes are not better.
Ive owned an 03, 05, 07, and now 09 HD bagger. First two were EG Classics, second two were Street Glides. So pretty much the same bike, aside from the yearly changes. Prior to that, Ive owned several other bikes, the more recent once being a Honda VTX1800, and Yamaha Venture Royal 1300 from 1986. I mention those to illustrate that I have owned bikes with different/better traits in some regards. For example, though the VTX1800 rode like sh*t, (bucking bronco) it tracked like it was on rails.
The 07 SG had both a true-track stabilizer, and the IDS added.
There were two things that made me sell my year and a half old 07.
The new frame, and Brembo/ABS.
Both, in my opinion, are HUGE improvements over what they replaced. The stabilty (or lack thereof) of the HD bagger line, has been a gripe of mine since I bought the first one. But the bike did so many other things so well, I figured I would just learn to live with it. Lets face it, they needed the improvement, and have for a LONG time. That frame has been around a LONG time, and though its been tweaked and improved, it needed a re-do.
I took my wife out this past weekend, and we did about 240 miles. Now, Im 220 and she is about 140. This was the FIRST ride I had ever taken her on (on a Harley) where I did not feel like the bike was pushing the limits of its abilities to carry 2 mid sized people. Not to a dangerous extent mind you, but to the extend of wondering why my 1 year old bike felt less stable than my 20 year old Venture when two up. Not only is the bike much better handling, and far more stable on the slab, but it finally feels like it has the underpinnings to really be a 2-up TOURING bike to me.
My 03, 05, and 07 always got the job done, but there was always that little feeling of wiggle, waggle, and wander. We all know its there. We try to pretend its not, but we know it is. We get used to it, we try to accept it as a normal part of an HD bagger, but it IS there. I had a Harley SALESMAN tell me, after owning a Fatboy and then a Roadking (which He sold) that he would NEVER go back to a touring bike until they "fix that f*cking frame!)
Not to mention the rear shocks being pumped to the max, and STILL feeling mushy and saggy with the wife on the back. Strictly from a load carrying and handling standpoint, especially 2 up, my 1986 Yamaha Venture Royal was a better touring bike than any of my first 3 Harleys.
Ill be honest, the first 3 I owned, each time before I bought, I test rode GL1800s. I never bought one, because of the style of the bike, and the uncomfortable riding/leg position, but I came damn close. Its very hard to arque with the perfomace of that bike. Likewise, I tested a Victory Vision. Looks aside, that was a VERY well handling and stable touring bike. The Harleys won me over in the end, 4 times, Because I wanted a motorcycle, not a 2 wheeled recreational vehicle (Goldwing) or a bike from the Jetsons (Vision) But purely from a performance/handling standpoint, part of me still considered the Goldwing each and every time, and would have considered the Vision as well. From PERFORMANCE standpoint only.
Not anymore.
I can finally say I have the Harley I always wanted. Since my 03, they have pretty much addressed each and every gripe I have had. (except the price tag). I will no longer wonder if maybe I should have bought the Wing. Although, I STILL say they should put the 103 motor in the baggers standard. (my 07 was a 103)
The 09s are that much better.
The brakes are better. Even without ABS (but you know this).
The suspension is better. They raised the weight limit 100 pounds for crying out loud. Thats a HUGE increase in capacity for a motorcycle.
The HANDLING, both at speed in twisties, and at slow speed, is better.
Its more stable at speed in a strait line. I think thats the 2” wider rear tire.
Do you realize that they have completly ELIMINATED the “powertrain alignment” proceddure on the 09? What does that tell you? Tells me its no longer a problem that need to be addressed.
The GEARING is better. No more feeling like every gear is too tall. No more lurching off stops or compensator rattling inside the primary. 6ths gear becomes usable at 60mph, not 70-75 (really). Remember, I DID have an IDS on my 07.
The front tire no longer wants to hop off the ground at idle. You DO still feel the V-twin thumping under you, but the BIKE is no longer shaking like its having a fit. At speed, its the smoothest HD I have EVER riden. NOTICABLEY smoother. Again, you still feel the THUMP of the motor, but the buzzing VIBRATIONS are down 80 percent.
I WONT compare directlly on heat issues, until I ride mine AFTER its been dyno tuned (just got done) I will say it was pretty hot for the first few hundred, but cooled down noticably each 100 miles after that as the motor broke in. I feel that after the tune, and changing to SYN3, heat will not be an issue. But I cannot truely compare the two, because I never rode my 07 when it was stock. It was a 103 stage 2 and had true dual headers from day one. So its not fair for me to compare to that. I can say that there is NO heat on the left side. What heat is on the right side, I think is the motor, not the exhaust. With the motor tuned properly, and running SYN3, in addition to being broken in, I think heat will be a non issue. I STILL say, ANYONE buying one of these bikes should just plan on a fuel manager, and a tune.
Little things, like moving the saddlebags back 1/2 inch so they dont dig into my wifes calves anymore. Improving the rider backrest mounting brackets. My wife says the tourpak sits slightly higher and further back, giving her more room that she has ever had, and better back support. I keep finding little things like that, which show they WERE thinking about this stuff.
Now, you have changed bikes almost as often as I have. Some people would call that stupid. Maybe they are right. And god knows, Ive paid the price in the wallet to keep inching upwards. I NEVER would have expected the changes in 07, 08, and 09. I thought when the new motor/tranny came in 07, that would be it for major changes for a while. Boy, was I wrong. But BOTH of us kept chaning bikes for a reason, in my case because I just was not quite happy with what I had.
While some people would call us stupid, what I feel is stupid, is paying over $20,000 for a bike, and NOT being as happy with it as you can be. Thats why I paid MORE for my SG that I would have for an Ultra, after adding the tourpak, etc. Because in the end, its what I really, wanted. And I will pay another silly $15/month to do that. I did NOT want the wheels or the pinstripes of the Ultra. And I KNEW it would bug the sh*t out of me for years if I did go that route.
So in the end, what is more stupid. Paying a little more, and truely being HAPPY with what you have, or compramising and always wishing you would not have.
I just decided that look, Im gonna be making payments on this bike for a LONG time. Is my 07 really the bike I want to commit to for the next 6-1/2 years of payments?
I feel my 09 is.
My 07 was a great bike, as Im sure your 08 is, as Im sure lots of peoples 05, 01, and others are. But the bottom line is, my 09 IS that much better. And while It may be stupid financially on paper to take the loss I did to move to the 09, in the end, I lost all the stupid little things I did not like about the 07 as well, that bugged me every time I rode it. And it was worth every cent of that, TO ME. I got what I owed on it, and I sold it. I lost a lot of money in Accessories, but I knew as I was buying them that I would never see that money back. Im not the kind of guy who keeps a running balance sheet in his head, expecting to break even on this stuff, and feeling screwed if I dont.
Anyway, I feel, that yes, the 09 is THAT much better of a bike. I can afford it, and I did it, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.
I suggest you go ride one, BUT, ride one that is at least broken in, because at least in my case, mine WAS pretty hot at first. So If you ride some demo bike with 300 miiles on it, expect that.
Ill let you know next week if the dyno tune/syn3 have impoved it further.
I will sum it up with a statement I made in another thread:
Just because the 09s are better, does not mean that pre-09 bikes are crap. BUT, just because pre-09 bikes are not crap, does NOT mean that 09 bikes are not better.
Everyone has different views but I am right on with yours. I usually trade my bike in every year. I think unless something really major happens with this one, this guy will be a keeper!
Ride safe!
T
#55
09-05-2008, 11:09 PM
#56
09-06-2008, 08:54 AM
[QUOTE=IRready;3832319]
Something funny about being called names from a guy that can't even spell. Listen cyber tough guy, I'm not interested in virtual fighting...it's about as appealing as virtual sex.
Now I'm going to jump on my completely useless and outdated equivalent to a "286 computer" (as you said) 2008 RKC and see if I can even make it to the end of the block...
MassHD, something I got to wonder, for those so obsessed with incremental performance gains that they're trading identical model bikes in every year at a great loss, shouldn't they consider another bike? For example, don't Harleys make about the same power today as a decade ago? Hell, my air cooled flat twin BMW is 400cc's smaller but still makes 20 more hp and similar torque right out of the box? Do these guys even know what an exceptional handling bike even feels like? I love my Harley, but I see it for what it is.
If my RKC could have lost 40 pounds rather than gaining it, maybe through the use of an alloy frame, than I'd be really excited. Or did something significant about the heat it produces, or really bump up the horsepower...otherwise, until then, I'll pass on trading my '08.
Now I'm going to jump on my completely useless and outdated equivalent to a "286 computer" (as you said) 2008 RKC and see if I can even make it to the end of the block...
MassHD, something I got to wonder, for those so obsessed with incremental performance gains that they're trading identical model bikes in every year at a great loss, shouldn't they consider another bike? For example, don't Harleys make about the same power today as a decade ago? Hell, my air cooled flat twin BMW is 400cc's smaller but still makes 20 more hp and similar torque right out of the box? Do these guys even know what an exceptional handling bike even feels like? I love my Harley, but I see it for what it is.
If my RKC could have lost 40 pounds rather than gaining it, maybe through the use of an alloy frame, than I'd be really excited. Or did something significant about the heat it produces, or really bump up the horsepower...otherwise, until then, I'll pass on trading my '08.
#57
09-06-2008, 09:09 AM
#58
09-06-2008, 09:16 AM
[QUOTE=PITA;3834354]
Now I'm going to jump on my completely useless and outdated equivalent to a "286 computer" (as you said) 2008 RKC and see if I can even make it to the end of the block...
.
\
Hey PITA the DICK,
I never once said the 08 is a useless or outdated or equivalent to a "286". I said HD has made changes that compare. Now shut up and quit making crap up like all other children do and go ride your MC, if you have one. It's more likely your going to suck on a pacifier.
Now I'm going to jump on my completely useless and outdated equivalent to a "286 computer" (as you said) 2008 RKC and see if I can even make it to the end of the block...
.
Hey PITA the DICK,
I never once said the 08 is a useless or outdated or equivalent to a "286". I said HD has made changes that compare. Now shut up and quit making crap up like all other children do and go ride your MC, if you have one. It's more likely your going to suck on a pacifier.
#59
09-06-2008, 10:12 AM
[QUOTE=IRready;3834422]
[QUOTE=IRready;3834422]In my opinion, the changes they made from 08 to 09 were like a 286 to a pentium.
...oh, then what were you suggesting then? Oh...nevermind.
Oh, and stop calling people names on the internet, that's something that pussies would do...
\
Hey PITA the DICK,
I never once said the 08 is a useless or outdated or equivalent to a "286". I said HD has made changes that compare. Now shut up and quit making crap up like all other children do and go ride your MC, if you have one. It's more likely your going to suck on a pacifier.
Hey PITA the DICK,
I never once said the 08 is a useless or outdated or equivalent to a "286". I said HD has made changes that compare. Now shut up and quit making crap up like all other children do and go ride your MC, if you have one. It's more likely your going to suck on a pacifier.
...oh, then what were you suggesting then? Oh...nevermind.
Oh, and stop calling people names on the internet, that's something that pussies would do...
#60
09-06-2008, 11:10 AM
1. Yes, the 09s are worth a hard look. (easy)
2. Is it worth it to you to move. (hard)
As for the fighting, I don't appreciate being accused of making things up, hype, exaggeration, or anything else along those lines, particularly from someone who is nothing but a sideline quarterback, and trying to justify (to himself and others) his reasons for standing on the sidelines by trying to discredit those who are actually playing in the game. Someone wants to stay with their 08? Great. More power to them and Lets ride! But don't go accusing me of trying to BS ANYBODY because I chose to move forward. When I find something I DONT like in the 09's Ill be the first one to post it.
In your case, I think you need to find a demo day, and take one out. As I said up front, you've changed bikes enough that its clear your willing to move to something else if it appeals to you more that your current bike. I think you would find the 09s worthy of very strong consideration, at the very least. I've yet to hear from ONE 09 owner, who was not 100 percent pleased with the move, and would not do it again in a second.
Ride safe, and good luck with your decision.
Last edited by flyingace; 09-06-2008 at 11:18 AM.