Ok people, help me out here. What problem? I keep hearing things about a "frame brace". What is it and what "problem" does it fix?
I have a '08 Ultra and I've put 9000 miles on it already and didn't know I had a frame problem. No one tells me anything. It handles great on the road at 75-85mph and I've been through Deals Gap and all through the Smokies riding single and two-up, and I don't really understand this "frame problem". I'm very pleased with the way it rides and handles. Guess I just don't know no better. What "symptoms" should I look for?

 

It is not a flaw. It is more the nature of the design of the frame. There is nothing wrong with your frame so don't worry. What people are talking about is the "wobble" that alot of people experience at higher speeds in long curves. Especially when hitting a bump in a curve. The "frame brace" you ask about is any one of about 10 different products out there supposed to cure that wobble.

There are a ton of threads on this subject. Go do some reading. Just do a search for "rear stabilizer" or "bagger brace" and you'll get more threads than you care to read.

Here is a good place to start: CLICK HERE

 

Im gonna try and sum this up without it going 5 pages. These are MY opinions, and in no way am I trying to slam/bash ANY previous year of HD Bagger.

Ive owned an 03, 05, 07, and now 09 HD bagger. First two were EG Classics, second two were Street Glides. So pretty much the same bike, aside from the yearly changes. Prior to that, Ive owned several other bikes, the more recent once being a Honda VTX1800, and Yamaha Venture Royal 1300 from 1986. I mention those to illustrate that I have owned bikes with different/better traits in some regards. For example, though the VTX1800 rode like sh*t, (bucking bronco) it tracked like it was on rails.

The 07 SG had both a true-track stabilizer, and the IDS added.

There were two things that made me sell my year and a half old 07.

The new frame, and Brembo/ABS.

Both, in my opinion, are HUGE improvements over what they replaced. The stabilty (or lack thereof) of the HD bagger line, has been a gripe of mine since I bought the first one. But the bike did so many other things so well, I figured I would just learn to live with it. Lets face it, they needed the improvement, and have for a LONG time. That frame has been around a LONG time, and though its been tweaked and improved, it needed a re-do.

I took my wife out this past weekend, and we did about 240 miles. Now, Im 220 and she is about 140. This was the FIRST ride I had ever taken her on (on a Harley) where I did not feel like the bike was pushing the limits of its abilities to carry 2 mid sized people. Not to a dangerous extent mind you, but to the extend of wondering why my 1 year old bike felt less stable than my 20 year old Venture when two up. Not only is the bike much better handling, and far more stable on the slab, but it finally feels like it has the underpinnings to really be a 2-up TOURING bike to me.

My 03, 05, and 07 always got the job done, but there was always that little feeling of wiggle, waggle, and wander. We all know its there. We try to pretend its not, but we know it is. We get used to it, we try to accept it as a normal part of an HD bagger, but it IS there. I had a Harley SALESMAN tell me, after owning a Fatboy and then a Roadking (which He sold) that he would NEVER go back to a touring bike until they "fix that f*cking frame!)

Not to mention the rear shocks being pumped to the max, and STILL feeling mushy and saggy with the wife on the back. Strictly from a load carrying and handling standpoint, especially 2 up, my 1986 Yamaha Venture Royal was a better touring bike than any of my first 3 Harleys.

Ill be honest, the first 3 I owned, each time before I bought, I test rode GL1800s. I never bought one, because of the style of the bike, and the uncomfortable riding/leg position, but I came damn close. Its very hard to arque with the perfomace of that bike. Likewise, I tested a Victory Vision. Looks aside, that was a VERY well handling and stable touring bike. The Harleys won me over in the end, 4 times, Because I wanted a motorcycle, not a 2 wheeled recreational vehicle (Goldwing) or a bike from the Jetsons (Vision) But purely from a performance/handling standpoint, part of me still considered the Goldwing each and every time, and would have considered the Vision as well. From PERFORMANCE standpoint only.

Not anymore.

I can finally say I have the Harley I always wanted. Since my 03, they have pretty much addressed each and every gripe I have had. (except the price tag). I will no longer wonder if maybe I should have bought the Wing. Although, I STILL say they should put the 103 motor in the baggers standard. (my 07 was a 103)

The 09s are that much better.

The brakes are better. Even without ABS (but you know this).

The suspension is better. They raised the weight limit 100 pounds for crying out loud. Thats a HUGE increase in capacity for a motorcycle.

The HANDLING, both at speed in twisties, and at slow speed, is better.

Its more stable at speed in a strait line. I think thats the 2” wider rear tire.

Do you realize that they have completly ELIMINATED the “powertrain alignment” proceddure on the 09? What does that tell you? Tells me its no longer a problem that need to be addressed.

The GEARING is better. No more feeling like every gear is too tall. No more lurching off stops or compensator rattling inside the primary. 6ths gear becomes usable at 60mph, not 70-75 (really). Remember, I DID have an IDS on my 07.

The front tire no longer wants to hop off the ground at idle. You DO still feel the V-twin thumping under you, but the BIKE is no longer shaking like its having a fit. At speed, its the smoothest HD I have EVER riden. NOTICABLEY smoother. Again, you still feel the THUMP of the motor, but the buzzing VIBRATIONS are down 80 percent.

I WONT compare directlly on heat issues, until I ride mine AFTER its been dyno tuned (just got done) I will say it was pretty hot for the first few hundred, but cooled down noticably each 100 miles after that as the motor broke in. I feel that after the tune, and changing to SYN3, heat will not be an issue. But I cannot truely compare the two, because I never rode my 07 when it was stock. It was a 103 stage 2 and had true dual headers from day one. So its not fair for me to compare to that. I can say that there is NO heat on the left side. What heat is on the right side, I think is the motor, not the exhaust. With the motor tuned properly, and running SYN3, in addition to being broken in, I think heat will be a non issue. I STILL say, ANYONE buying one of these bikes should just plan on a fuel manager, and a tune.

Little things, like moving the saddlebags back 1/2 inch so they dont dig into my wifes calves anymore. Improving the rider backrest mounting brackets. My wife says the tourpak sits slightly higher and further back, giving her more room that she has ever had, and better back support. I keep finding little things like that, which show they WERE thinking about this stuff.

Now, you have changed bikes almost as often as I have. Some people would call that stupid. Maybe they are right. And god knows, Ive paid the price in the wallet to keep inching upwards. I NEVER would have expected the changes in 07, 08, and 09. I thought when the new motor/tranny came in 07, that would be it for major changes for a while. Boy, was I wrong. But BOTH of us kept chaning bikes for a reason, in my case because I just was not quite happy with what I had.

While some people would call us stupid, what I feel is stupid, is paying over $20,000 for a bike, and NOT being as happy with it as you can be. Thats why I paid MORE for my SG that I would have for an Ultra, after adding the tourpak, etc. Because in the end, its what I really, wanted. And I will pay another silly $15/month to do that. I did NOT want the wheels or the pinstripes of the Ultra. And I KNEW it would bug the sh*t out of me for years if I did go that route.

So in the end, what is more stupid. Paying a little more, and truely being HAPPY with what you have, or compramising and always wishing you would not have.

I just decided that look, Im gonna be making payments on this bike for a LONG time. Is my 07 really the bike I want to commit to for the next 6-1/2 years of payments?

I feel my 09 is.

My 07 was a great bike, as Im sure your 08 is, as Im sure lots of peoples 05, 01, and others are. But the bottom line is, my 09 IS that much better. And while It may be stupid financially on paper to take the loss I did to move to the 09, in the end, I lost all the stupid little things I did not like about the 07 as well, that bugged me every time I rode it. And it was worth every cent of that, TO ME. I got what I owed on it, and I sold it. I lost a lot of money in Accessories, but I knew as I was buying them that I would never see that money back. Im not the kind of guy who keeps a running balance sheet in his head, expecting to break even on this stuff, and feeling screwed if I dont.

Anyway, I feel, that yes, the 09 is THAT much better of a bike. I can afford it, and I did it, and I would do it again in a heartbeat.

I suggest you go ride one, BUT, ride one that is at least broken in, because at least in my case, mine WAS pretty hot at first. So If you ride some demo bike with 300 miiles on it, expect that.

Ill let you know next week if the dyno tune/syn3 have impoved it further.

I will sum it up with a statement I made in another thread:

Just because the 09s are better, does not mean that pre-09 bikes are crap. BUT, just because pre-09 bikes are not crap, does NOT mean that 09 bikes are not better.

 

WoW, you must be in sales( if you are not you need to be). This has to be the best sale speech I have read. You just made up my mind, I will trade this weekend. Thank you.

 

One thing I have not experienced is the dreaded wobble. My first experience with the Touring line was in 2007 when I rented a Electraglide Classic out of Vegas. Wife was not with me on that trip so the riding was solo. Friend of mine rented one also and we toured all through Arizona, Nevada, and even hit Death Vally Ca. We had stretches where we rode 80-85 for long periods of time. The bike was hot and even pinged some but I never felt the wobble. Later that fall I rented an Ultra for a week down in Tn. and went through the Smokey Mountains, deals gap, etc. and the wife was with me. Again, no wobble or problems other than heat.

Fast forward to this year and buying the 08 Ultra. We have taken two out of state trips already and both times the bike was loaded up and riding 2-up. No wobble. All the riding on it so far around town, out in the country, etc. and no wobble.

To date, I have not experienced the wobble. The circle of friends that I ride with is somewhere around 20-25 riders. Many of them own baggers. In all the years of riding, none of them have ever mentioned a wobble. I just sometimes wonder why I haven't heard of this outside of this site.

Having said all of that, I understand the design and the motor being allowed to move longitudinally in the frame (shake) and that lateral movement does happen under certain conditions. But perhaps not all Touring bikes are equal. Maybe the alignment, the motor mount tolerances, the swing arm tolerances, etc. all stack up one direction for a condition that is worse on some bikes. All I can say is I have not experienced it. Of course, I don't generally ride hard and this may have something to do with it. But occasionally I do push things. Anyway, I could see how this phenomenon could be a little unnerving.

Having said all of that, do we know for sure the 09 design fixed the wobble? How do we know? Is Harley claiming it? It would seem to me, any design that allows longitudinal movement of the engine has the potential for lateral movement under certain conditions. The only way to be sure would be to hard mount the motor...right? Even the Dynas and Sportys would have the potential to wobble...based on the rubber mounting.

 

As for why you have never felt it:

1. Some people are more sensitive to it. (BTW, I am in NO way an aggressive rider)
2. It does get worse with wear/milage
3. Sometimes you need something else to COMPARE to, in order to realize it.

Case in point, I had my 1986 Venture for 2 years. I never thought the brakes were a problem. Till I got the VTX (which could stop BEFORE the dime) After riding THAT bike, the brakes on the Venture felt like it was a death trap to me. You think your Harley has power...till you ride a VTX1800. You think your Harley handles well...till you ride a Goldwing. ETC. Sometimes, you just get so used to how something performs, you dont notice the little quirks. Most of us on Baggers don't really pay much attention to the shake at idle. But ask a guy with a softail about it. Ive seen threads along those lines where Softail owners cannot believe how "bad" the idle shake is. I hardly notice it anymore. Because Im USED to it.

Believe me, one day when your loaded up and taking a nice long sweeper at 50mph +, and hit a small bump mid-curve, you'll understand full well why the "bagger boogie" is such an issue to so many people. You may go 5 years and never feel it. But one good "crap your pants" moment, and you'll never forget it. And you WILL be thinking about it every time you find yourself in a similar situation, whether the bike does it or not ever time your in that situation.

The people who own them can tell you. Especially those who have owned prior years. What I CANT tell you, and will admit, is how the bike will handle with 30k miles on it. Only time will tell that. I CAN tell you one thing for certain, the 08 did not fix it, nor the 07, nor...

And I CAN say, with 100 percent certiantly, that my 09 is BETTER than my (low milage) 07 with a TrueTrack.

True, but the fact that Dynas and sporties don't have the issue, shows that properly designed, the rubber mounts CAN work without the waggle.

 

Actually, I have just been looking at the True-track website to try and educate myself an voila...they offer a kit for the Dyna, FXR, and the v-rod. Makes sense...they are all rubber mounted and allow longitudinal movement of the motor. I didn't see one for the Sporty...I wonder if it has 3 or more mounts??? I would think any design with 3 or more mounts would not have the problem....but I am not sure.

 

At least one account of the 09 exhibiting some amount of wobble...

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showp...7&postcount=99

Take it with a grain of salt...

 

Look at it this way, when the PC's went from a 286 processor to a 386, to a 486 to a pentium, each time was quantum leaps. When it went from Petium to Pentiums 2, 3 exedera not a big deal, much like 07 to 08 models, not a big deal. In my opinion, the changes they made from 08 to 09 were like a 286 to a pentium. If money is aside, buy the 09. Big time changes, not even the same bike as prior models IMO. I bought an 09 and I ride with people who have bought 09's and have owned later models, including 08's, will say the same. These changes are for real, just ride one and you will see. That being said, that does not mean earlier rides are not decent, but technology changes. Usually for the better and I believe this is for the better. Time will tell. Good luck.

 

So the ’08 to ’09 is just like going from a 286 to a pentium??? Oh shut up already! You guys sound like some sportbikes types I know, always needing to trade in for the next big thing but I still see them getting passed at the local track days by guys on decade old bikes.

No doubt, the ’09 is a step forward, nothing wrong with more stability and a cleaned up rear. I’d pass on the 180 rear on the RKC though, looks a bit metric to me and ruins the heritage look, but that’s subjective. I also love the vibration at idle on my '08. But there is no way a change to 40+ pounds, a longer wheelbase and a fatter rear will result in better low speed manners, unless the Harley fairies sprinkle some magic dust that defies logic…nice try WW1. The extra 100 pounds of load means nothing to those of us who don’t exceed the already generous GVWR.

Otherwise, what you guys call a wobble is nothing more than some simple chassis flex to an experienced rider. You make it sound akin to a full on tank slapper that I experienced on my sportbike – now that’s crap your pants scary. I just came back from Milwaukee to Canada loaded two up with luggage over some bad pavement, and Lord knows I’m aggressive, and the ’08 never felt out of hand. Otherwise, if you think the changes are huge then go ahead and buy ‘em and support the MoCo. Just don’t BS the rest of us.