Panic stop. OH SHIT
#81
06-03-2008 | 08:56 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,106
Likes: 11
From: SoCal
RE: Panic stop. OH ****
ORIGINAL: JBA111
heres the problem with the tests quoted so far, you have "VERY EXPERIENCED riders emergency brakeing where they KNOW to do a well practiced emergency brake. The KNOW part isnt even given a knod here and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
They are settin up their emergency stop from the time they turn to start that run!! When they start the run they have their weight centered their hands in control postition their body position ready to RUMBLE!! That to me is certianly VERY KEY to their doing such great emergency stops. Also their mind is 100% emergency brake focused, not lookin behind or off to the side or tryin to swing alittle sideways to miss that front fender.
Where as in reality, we ride lots of times in not so centered body positons and hands not in perfect postiton and maybe feet set too far whatever . so it seems like in the real world as on the street the experienced rider would be hard pressed to beat the abs system cause it's going to work every time.
And from what I have been told it is a very little maintence system. you can change tires and change brake pads and there is nothin with the abs to fool with. what's NOT to like except payin for it?
heres the problem with the tests quoted so far, you have "VERY EXPERIENCED riders emergency brakeing where they KNOW to do a well practiced emergency brake. The KNOW part isnt even given a knod here and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
They are settin up their emergency stop from the time they turn to start that run!! When they start the run they have their weight centered their hands in control postition their body position ready to RUMBLE!! That to me is certianly VERY KEY to their doing such great emergency stops. Also their mind is 100% emergency brake focused, not lookin behind or off to the side or tryin to swing alittle sideways to miss that front fender.
Where as in reality, we ride lots of times in not so centered body positons and hands not in perfect postiton and maybe feet set too far whatever . so it seems like in the real world as on the street the experienced rider would be hard pressed to beat the abs system cause it's going to work every time.
And from what I have been told it is a very little maintence system. you can change tires and change brake pads and there is nothin with the abs to fool with. what's NOT to like except payin for it?
Of course the human factor plays a part, and yes the instructors knew it was a braking exercise. But we all know that you play like you practice, so why not PRACTICE braking. It can only make you a better rider. Raymond Berry was a great reciever because he had Johnny U throw him lousy passes in practice. Now no one intentionally throws a lousy pass in a game, but if you practice catching them, then come game time it won't be a big surprise when the ball is delivered behind you, or over your head. I'm not bashing ABS, my next bike will probably have ABS on it. Yes, on the street in the real world ABS is going to work every time. I'm not arguing that. It's good, that's why the motor officers like it. However all I'm saying is thatit is not a substitute for good braking skills. And good braking skills comes from practice.
#82
06-03-2008 | 10:23 PM
Road Captain
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 645
Likes: 15
From:
RE: Panic stop. OH ****
ORIGINAL: JBA111
heres the problem with the tests quoted so far, you have "VERY EXPERIENCED riders emergency brakeing where they KNOW to do a well practiced emergency brake. The KNOW part isnt even given a knod here and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
They are settin up their emergency stop from the time they turn to start that run!! When they start the run they have their weight centered their hands in control postition their body position ready to RUMBLE!! That to me is certianly VERY KEY to their doing such great emergency stops. Also their mind is 100% emergency brake focused, not lookin behind or off to the side or tryin to swing alittle sideways to miss that front fender.
Where as in reality, we ride lots of times in not so centered body positons and hands not in perfect postiton and maybe feet set too far whatever . so it seems like in the real world as on the street the experienced rider would be hard pressed to beat the abs system cause it's going to work every time.
And from what I have been told it is a very little maintence system. you can change tires and change brake pads and there is nothin with the abs to fool with. what's NOT to like except payin for it?
heres the problem with the tests quoted so far, you have "VERY EXPERIENCED riders emergency brakeing where they KNOW to do a well practiced emergency brake. The KNOW part isnt even given a knod here and IT IS VERY IMPORTANT!!
They are settin up their emergency stop from the time they turn to start that run!! When they start the run they have their weight centered their hands in control postition their body position ready to RUMBLE!! That to me is certianly VERY KEY to their doing such great emergency stops. Also their mind is 100% emergency brake focused, not lookin behind or off to the side or tryin to swing alittle sideways to miss that front fender.
Where as in reality, we ride lots of times in not so centered body positons and hands not in perfect postiton and maybe feet set too far whatever . so it seems like in the real world as on the street the experienced rider would be hard pressed to beat the abs system cause it's going to work every time.
And from what I have been told it is a very little maintence system. you can change tires and change brake pads and there is nothin with the abs to fool with. what's NOT to like except payin for it?
Bill
#83
08-17-2008 | 02:02 PM
Cruiser
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 230
Likes: 0
From: Florida
This is an ongoing argument that will have no ultimate correct answer. For those that learned to road race or dirt bike race braking comes as second nature and poses no threat. ABS is unnecessary and in some cases becomes a hindrance to one's natural ability to control the MC.
OTOH, if you never raced and learned to ride only on the street ABS can be the difference maker. Realistically, you cannot develop the braking skills that ex-racers have by riding on the street no matter how many years you do it. In the same vein all motormen have learned skills that street riders cannot emulate (drill team riders are the exception) no matter how many years of riding they have under their butts.
An interesting debate ABS or not. But, there is NO right or wrong answer. It's what works for you and your riding skills and comfort zone. If having ABS gives you the confidence to ride safer than it has already done it's job. If OTOH you can stop a bike on a dime doing stoppies, well riding w/o ABS is fine too. Either way it will ultimately be your own riding skills and riding habits that may save your life, NOT technology alone. :-)
OTOH, if you never raced and learned to ride only on the street ABS can be the difference maker. Realistically, you cannot develop the braking skills that ex-racers have by riding on the street no matter how many years you do it. In the same vein all motormen have learned skills that street riders cannot emulate (drill team riders are the exception) no matter how many years of riding they have under their butts.
An interesting debate ABS or not. But, there is NO right or wrong answer. It's what works for you and your riding skills and comfort zone. If having ABS gives you the confidence to ride safer than it has already done it's job. If OTOH you can stop a bike on a dime doing stoppies, well riding w/o ABS is fine too. Either way it will ultimately be your own riding skills and riding habits that may save your life, NOT technology alone. :-)
#85
08-17-2008 | 03:52 PM
Road Master
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,031
Likes: 3
From:
Just as the fact that there are some people who simply should not be allowed to drive cars, there are some people riding motorcycles that really should not be on the road. These people do not know that they fit into this catagory, they feel they are completely safe. For this reason, anything that can give an inexperienced or unqualified rider an advantage is a good thing. I do think that anybody that has a habit of doing regular "panic stops" needs to re evaluate their riding style. If cars are always "just popping out" in front of you, there is a problem and it may rest with you.
#86
08-17-2008 | 04:45 PM
Road Master
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,069
Likes: 0
From: Way..Northern California
I couldn't agree more brunswickoh,
I have been riding for more than thirty years, dirt and street, in that time I have had maybe two emergency stops (at most), lucky? Maybe...but I watch everyone one on the road like a hawk. When I see someone coming up to an intersection I just figure that they are not going to see me. I have avoided many emergency stops by being prepared. I had very bad experiences with the first ABS brakes on my truck, they have improved since and I am ok with them now. Because of this I had decided that I did not want to be one of the first to get them on a bike but I am glad to hear that they are working so well. I will look forward to my next bike having ABS but I am not going to run out and trade in my bike just to get them. I will keep riding safe and paying attention to the road and mostly to the other drivers. For those of you without ABS, don't be too disappointed, when they come out with air bags and the guys with the ABS brakes will be selling their bikes cheap.
I have been riding for more than thirty years, dirt and street, in that time I have had maybe two emergency stops (at most), lucky? Maybe...but I watch everyone one on the road like a hawk. When I see someone coming up to an intersection I just figure that they are not going to see me. I have avoided many emergency stops by being prepared. I had very bad experiences with the first ABS brakes on my truck, they have improved since and I am ok with them now. Because of this I had decided that I did not want to be one of the first to get them on a bike but I am glad to hear that they are working so well. I will look forward to my next bike having ABS but I am not going to run out and trade in my bike just to get them. I will keep riding safe and paying attention to the road and mostly to the other drivers. For those of you without ABS, don't be too disappointed, when they come out with air bags and the guys with the ABS brakes will be selling their bikes cheap.
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