5th Gear Whine/Clatter
#31
02-25-2008 | 08:09 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 10,601
Likes: 712
From: Bellevue, NE
#35
02-26-2008 | 12:01 AM
Banned
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 845
Likes: 4
From: ID ho
RE: 5th Gear Whine/Clatter
ORIGINAL: choochoo
Well then maybe you can explain (with Proof), why the later models didn't appear
to have the inherent problem.
From reading the posts on the forum seems it was prevalent in the early production
model runs, but not so in the later production model runs.
Granted whatever HD did, it must not have cured it, because they felt compelled
to design the IDS and install at factory on 08's and convienently made it a retro active design.
Nope I believe HD did something but refuse to admit, because they don't want to accept
liability for all the noisy ones.
I've had a 98 RG,01EGC, 01 RKP, and now 06EGC all 5 speeds not one has had a noisy transmission
in any gear. Guess I must of just besat the odds?!!?!?!?!
Well then maybe you can explain (with Proof), why the later models didn't appear
to have the inherent problem.
From reading the posts on the forum seems it was prevalent in the early production
model runs, but not so in the later production model runs.
Granted whatever HD did, it must not have cured it, because they felt compelled
to design the IDS and install at factory on 08's and convienently made it a retro active design.
Nope I believe HD did something but refuse to admit, because they don't want to accept
liability for all the noisy ones.
I've had a 98 RG,01EGC, 01 RKP, and now 06EGC all 5 speeds not one has had a noisy transmission
in any gear. Guess I must of just besat the odds?!!?!?!?!
ORIGINAL: hogdoc
Sorry choochoo there was no mid year change to "fix"a problem that doesnt exist. The '07 trans is the same all year. A bit of gear noise is not a problem, this has been beat to death and not 1 trans has blown up due to 5th gear. 5 speed bikes made theSAMEF"N NOISEin 4th gear. The problem comes from using to light of an oil in a gear box. USE GEAR OIL IN A GEAR BOX! I guess you never drove a Chevy with a Muncie trans, talk about gear noise. The IDS is for import riders converting to HD.
Baker is a smart man and found a great way to get $700.00 out of all these new riders by fixing a "PROBLEM" that doesnt exist. My hat's off to him for being a great entrepenuer!
You seem to be bitter and a little sue happy!
ORIGINAL: choochoo
I fit really bothers you that much, you have many options.
all those listed above (which don't fix it just masks it)plus this
Thoroughly research the issue and get enough info to show HD F..ed
up, and quietly did a factory change mid year production so the later
made models were quieter, and then added the IDS in 08. Also how the
aftermarket has developed fixes. Take them to samll claims court and hope you
win.
or
go to Baker transmissions (or a supplier of such) buy their 6speed and install it
or buy their repair kit and install it.
or
Go to HD dealer and buy the screaming eagle 6 speed
or buy a different model.
These are FIXES anything else just masks the problem ($.59 ear plugs will mask it too).
Will your current tranny disintegrate, probably not.
I fit really bothers you that much, you have many options.
all those listed above (which don't fix it just masks it)plus this
Thoroughly research the issue and get enough info to show HD F..ed
up, and quietly did a factory change mid year production so the later
made models were quieter, and then added the IDS in 08. Also how the
aftermarket has developed fixes. Take them to samll claims court and hope you
win.
or
go to Baker transmissions (or a supplier of such) buy their 6speed and install it
or buy their repair kit and install it.
or
Go to HD dealer and buy the screaming eagle 6 speed
or buy a different model.
These are FIXES anything else just masks the problem ($.59 ear plugs will mask it too).
Will your current tranny disintegrate, probably not.
Baker is a smart man and found a great way to get $700.00 out of all these new riders by fixing a "PROBLEM" that doesnt exist. My hat's off to him for being a great entrepenuer!
You seem to be bitter and a little sue happy!
My dads bike was built 2 months before mine was. His doesnt make a sound, mine was loud as hell till I put Redline init! Back when everybody was complaining I said to compare BUILD DATES notPURCHASE DATES as to which bikes made niose. NO ONE was interested in the real facts ofwheather itwas a late or early build.So your Early/Late argument doesnt hold merit since the real fact of when it was BUILT wasnt what everybody compared.
You "believe HD did something" but YOU have no proof just your speculation.
[b]I dont KNOW that the IDS was designed to mask the noise and neither do you. We weren't there when the engineers designed it. The misinformation superhighway has so many stating thats why , so itmust be true. There are many ACTUAL mechanics on here that I knowlaugh thier asses of just as I do at some of the rediculous things that are stated here by "riders" that have no idea what they are talking about.[/b
#37
02-27-2008 | 09:52 AM
Banned
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,301
Likes: 4
From:
RE: 5th Gear Whine/Clatter
HD apparently had a machining / quality control problem or an engineering design problem
in the 07 and 08 that apparently only showed up in the baggers. Leastwise I din't see or hear of complaints in the other models (maybe somebody here has, and can repost them for info sake).
I did say between early production and later production NOT sales date.
Yes not all early had the noise. Seems it wasn't in each and every, just in many.
I too agree it probably won't disintegrate.
The noise is not caused by just any one gear design. Rather a combination of problems.
gear cut, mesh, tolerances, fact that the gears are now always in constant mesh and are locked by dogs vs the old way of moving the gears themselves in and out of mesh, balanced vs unbalanced engines, and maybe even riding style.
But it is interesting to note from reading here and other forums, the noise complaints basically
went away, with those that bought the later production models.
HD could NOT suffer TWO years in a row of NOISY tranny complaints.
so rather than admit a problem existed, they developed their own IDS system. And isn't it
CONVIENENT they made the design so it would retrofit the 07's?? Make it standard on the 08's but make you pay for it for an 07. Then to increase sales and to appease you somewhat, offer it at a discount on the elbow grease program!
No I don't have proof that they did a minor design change in the tranny to reduce the noise.
But then again I don't need a anvil to fall on my foot, to know that if one did it is going to hurt!
As stated Baker designed their own 6 speed but later they designed a heavier transmission
side plate and bearings for the HD one. This side plate withstands the lateral thrust better
keeping the gears and shafts in proper alignment, thus reducing the noise and the clatter.
So I still go with my original belief HD did something in the later production runs.
No doubt the IDS helps smooth things out but it is NOT the cure.
[quote]ORIGINAL: hogdoc
[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo
Well then maybe you can explain (with Proof), why the later models didn't appear
to have the inherent problem.
From reading the posts on the forum seems it was prevalent in the early production
model runs, but not so in the later production model runs.
Granted whatever HD did, it must not have cured it, because they felt compelled
to design the IDS and install at factory on 08's and convienently made it a retro active design.
Nope I believe HD did something but refuse to admit, because they don't want to accept
liability for all the noisy ones.
I've had a 98 RG,01EGC, 01 RKP, and now 06EGC all 5 speeds not one has had a noisy transmission
in any gear. Guess I must of just besat the odds?!!?!?!?!
[quote]ORIGINAL: hogdoc
[b]Sorry choochoo there was no mid year change to "fix"a problem that doesnt exist. The '07 trans is the same all year. A bit of gear noise is not a problem, this has been beat to death and not 1 trans has blown up due to 5th gear. 5 speed bikes made theSAMEF"N
in the 07 and 08 that apparently only showed up in the baggers. Leastwise I din't see or hear of complaints in the other models (maybe somebody here has, and can repost them for info sake).
I did say between early production and later production NOT sales date.
Yes not all early had the noise. Seems it wasn't in each and every, just in many.
I too agree it probably won't disintegrate.
The noise is not caused by just any one gear design. Rather a combination of problems.
gear cut, mesh, tolerances, fact that the gears are now always in constant mesh and are locked by dogs vs the old way of moving the gears themselves in and out of mesh, balanced vs unbalanced engines, and maybe even riding style.
But it is interesting to note from reading here and other forums, the noise complaints basically
went away, with those that bought the later production models.
HD could NOT suffer TWO years in a row of NOISY tranny complaints.
so rather than admit a problem existed, they developed their own IDS system. And isn't it
CONVIENENT they made the design so it would retrofit the 07's?? Make it standard on the 08's but make you pay for it for an 07. Then to increase sales and to appease you somewhat, offer it at a discount on the elbow grease program!
No I don't have proof that they did a minor design change in the tranny to reduce the noise.
But then again I don't need a anvil to fall on my foot, to know that if one did it is going to hurt!
As stated Baker designed their own 6 speed but later they designed a heavier transmission
side plate and bearings for the HD one. This side plate withstands the lateral thrust better
keeping the gears and shafts in proper alignment, thus reducing the noise and the clatter.
So I still go with my original belief HD did something in the later production runs.
No doubt the IDS helps smooth things out but it is NOT the cure.
[quote]ORIGINAL: hogdoc
[quote]ORIGINAL: choochoo
Well then maybe you can explain (with Proof), why the later models didn't appear
to have the inherent problem.
From reading the posts on the forum seems it was prevalent in the early production
model runs, but not so in the later production model runs.
Granted whatever HD did, it must not have cured it, because they felt compelled
to design the IDS and install at factory on 08's and convienently made it a retro active design.
Nope I believe HD did something but refuse to admit, because they don't want to accept
liability for all the noisy ones.
I've had a 98 RG,01EGC, 01 RKP, and now 06EGC all 5 speeds not one has had a noisy transmission
in any gear. Guess I must of just besat the odds?!!?!?!?!
[quote]ORIGINAL: hogdoc
ORIGINAL: choochoo
I fit really bothers you that much, you have many options.
all those listed above (which don't fix it just masks it)plus this
Thoroughly research the issue and get enough info to show HD F..ed
up, and quietly did a factory change mid year production so the later
made models were quieter, and then added the IDS in 08. Also how the
aftermarket has developed fixes. Take them to samll claims court and hope you
win.
or
go to Baker transmissions (or a supplier of such) buy their 6speed and install it
or buy their repair kit and install it.
or
Go to HD dealer and buy the screaming eagle 6 speed
or buy a different model.
These are FIXES anything else just masks the problem ($.59 ear plugs will mask it too).
Will your current tranny disintegrate, probably not.
I fit really bothers you that much, you have many options.
all those listed above (which don't fix it just masks it)plus this
Thoroughly research the issue and get enough info to show HD F..ed
up, and quietly did a factory change mid year production so the later
made models were quieter, and then added the IDS in 08. Also how the
aftermarket has developed fixes. Take them to samll claims court and hope you
win.
or
go to Baker transmissions (or a supplier of such) buy their 6speed and install it
or buy their repair kit and install it.
or
Go to HD dealer and buy the screaming eagle 6 speed
or buy a different model.
These are FIXES anything else just masks the problem ($.59 ear plugs will mask it too).
Will your current tranny disintegrate, probably not.
#39
02-27-2008 | 11:36 AM
Tourer
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 363
Likes: 0
From: Pennsylvania
RE: 5th Gear Whine/Clatter
I have 07 Ultra.....bought in Sept of 06......manufactured in 8/06.......(early model)......Never had clatter....very little whine in 5th gear.......NO IDS...don't need it. Syn 3 in all three holes.
So please, don't think all 07's are bad, or early models are bad. Go to other boards. Almost all 07 HD's are running the same engine/ transmission setup. How many softtail owners are complaining? Dyna??
So please, don't think all 07's are bad, or early models are bad. Go to other boards. Almost all 07 HD's are running the same engine/ transmission setup. How many softtail owners are complaining? Dyna??
#40
02-27-2008 | 04:18 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,303
Likes: 4
From:
RE: 5th Gear Whine/Clatter
Some of these bikes had a legitiment complaint and the MoCo went to great lengths to cure it.Alot of things went on behind the scenes to stop this complaint and to save their heads.Having owned one of these early clatterers and dealing with HD on a weekly basis for almost 11 months,I can say Im glad its over,that my bike is now like those before it,or for those that never had this noise and that noone else will have this complaint if the IDS is used.Sure we have to pay for it,it may be a bandaidbut I have spent more with nowhere near the results.HD lost owners that gave up waiting and I feel bad for that.