What cam to use?
#1
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After a lot of debate, I have decided to go to my local HD dealer to have my engine mods done. They are saving me some good money, more likely to honor warranty, and I have heard good things about their custom motor tech. They will be using all SE parts. I know there are other parts out there that might be better, other shops that will do a better build, etc...but I have my reasons.
This build is not yet set-in-stone yet - I am open to change & would love to hear your honest opinions on what they are suggesting...
Here is what I have already on the bike: SERT, Rinehart TDs, SE Heavy Breather w/90* elbow. Those we great additions and I got noticable gains from them. Dyno'd out at 84hp @5200rpm and 105ft lbs tq @3500rpm
Here is what they suggest (all SE parts):
ACR Performance Heads #17165-08 (I do like the idea of auto compression release)
Roller Rockers #17378-98
Rocker Arm Supports #17675-01B
Perfect Push Rods #18416-04
Tappets XL/TC8 #18572-07
Pistons 3 7/8" #22137-08
Cam 264 # 25476-06
50mm Throttle Body # 27623-05
Performance Clutch Kit # 37969-03
They said they did this to the same bike I have '07 Street Glide and got 112hp @5700rpm and 112ft lbs tq @ 4000rpm. I talked to the owner of that bikeand he loves the build and is very happy with the performance of his bike now.
I like to run my bike hard, mostly back roads, but I do get up on the highway, so I'd like the best of both worlds really - good pulling throughout. There has been much debate about which cams to use. Should I go to a 251 or 255, or 258 to achieve better lower-end torque? Looking at this guys dyno chart, it starts to wake up at about 3000rpm and starts to drop off around 5000rpm, but hp is a steady rise and crosses torque at 5300rpm. Also, should I have them use the Cometic .030 head gaskets to bump up compression some more? The more I read these forums, the more I wonder what to do!!! I need your help.
This build is not yet set-in-stone yet - I am open to change & would love to hear your honest opinions on what they are suggesting...
Here is what I have already on the bike: SERT, Rinehart TDs, SE Heavy Breather w/90* elbow. Those we great additions and I got noticable gains from them. Dyno'd out at 84hp @5200rpm and 105ft lbs tq @3500rpm
Here is what they suggest (all SE parts):
ACR Performance Heads #17165-08 (I do like the idea of auto compression release)
Roller Rockers #17378-98
Rocker Arm Supports #17675-01B
Perfect Push Rods #18416-04
Tappets XL/TC8 #18572-07
Pistons 3 7/8" #22137-08
Cam 264 # 25476-06
50mm Throttle Body # 27623-05
Performance Clutch Kit # 37969-03
They said they did this to the same bike I have '07 Street Glide and got 112hp @5700rpm and 112ft lbs tq @ 4000rpm. I talked to the owner of that bikeand he loves the build and is very happy with the performance of his bike now.
I like to run my bike hard, mostly back roads, but I do get up on the highway, so I'd like the best of both worlds really - good pulling throughout. There has been much debate about which cams to use. Should I go to a 251 or 255, or 258 to achieve better lower-end torque? Looking at this guys dyno chart, it starts to wake up at about 3000rpm and starts to drop off around 5000rpm, but hp is a steady rise and crosses torque at 5300rpm. Also, should I have them use the Cometic .030 head gaskets to bump up compression some more? The more I read these forums, the more I wonder what to do!!! I need your help.
#2
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Here is what I have already on the bike: SERT, Rinehart TDs, SE Heavy Breather w/90* elbow. Those we great additions and I got noticable gains from them. Dyno'd out at 84hp @5200rpm and 105ft lbs tq @3500rpm
That's impressive. I've got an '08 same set up,RHTD's,SERT SEAC w/o the heavy breathercanned map and got 76+hp 88+tq! Did you have that dyno tuned? Those are the best numbers I've seen with that setup
That's impressive. I've got an '08 same set up,RHTD's,SERT SEAC w/o the heavy breathercanned map and got 76+hp 88+tq! Did you have that dyno tuned? Those are the best numbers I've seen with that setup
#3
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if you're getting 105ft/lb of torque with your stock heads on a 96" and want to spend several thousand dollars for 7 more ft/lb it's your money. Having said that, I would highly suggest gettting someone to dyno your bike properly. If we could get that kind of torque out of stock 96" motors w/ stock cams, there would be a lot less upgrades for HD to sell. You gottabe cautious when you're getting 15-20 more lb's of torque than average with that setup.
Second part..HD will always try to sell you the rocker arms, supports and throttle body. You're gonna have to contact an unbiased source to verify that. I say you don't need them.
Second part..HD will always try to sell you the rocker arms, supports and throttle body. You're gonna have to contact an unbiased source to verify that. I say you don't need them.
#4
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ORIGINAL: GliderXXX
if you're getting 105ft/lb of torque with your stock heads on a 96" and want to spend several thousand dollars for 7 more ft/lb it's your money. Having said that, I would highly suggest gettting someone to dyno your bike properly. If we could get that kind of torque out of stock 96" motors w/ stock cams, there would be a lot less upgrades for HD to sell. You gottabe cautious when you're getting 15-20 more lb's of torque than average with that setup.
Second part..HD will always try to sell you the rocker arms, supports and throttle body. You're gonna have to contact an unbiased source to verify that. I say you don't need them.
if you're getting 105ft/lb of torque with your stock heads on a 96" and want to spend several thousand dollars for 7 more ft/lb it's your money. Having said that, I would highly suggest gettting someone to dyno your bike properly. If we could get that kind of torque out of stock 96" motors w/ stock cams, there would be a lot less upgrades for HD to sell. You gottabe cautious when you're getting 15-20 more lb's of torque than average with that setup.
Second part..HD will always try to sell you the rocker arms, supports and throttle body. You're gonna have to contact an unbiased source to verify that. I say you don't need them.
I agree, if the numbers are correct, you are spending a huge amount to gain little. I have not seen a basically stock 96" dyno anywhere near those numbers, not saying the dyno guy is tweaking the numbers, but again, if true, why spend the money for the little gain?
#5
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I went SE 211s on my 2008 SG. SERT, Bassani Power Curve Reinhart Mufflers, Adjustable Pushrods. All else stock, no head work, no replaced pistons. 88HP 98Tq.... Pulls very hard from 2700-5000. Totally different bike from stock. The 211s have an idle any Harley guy would love.... Everyone has their favorite grinds. But the 211s for me are a really great cam for an otherwise stock96. And should not be overlooked. But it sounds you are after something even more radical.... I agree bang for buck ratio, might be off on this one......
#7
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I thought those numbers were a bit high for my bike with those few mods, but I did notice a huge difference, so I just accepted them. Not so concerned about #'s but rather performance I can feel. Numbers are just another way to brag - anyone can say anything, so doesn't matter to me much. I would like to invest in the right components, and that is why I am here asking for your help and opinions! The one thing I will say is the tuner said that the bike he dyno'd that got the 112ft lbs of torque only had slip-on's and he thought mine with proper tune with the true-duals would post higher figures. I know some aboutengine stuff, but I don't have much experience with modifying Harley engines, so that is where you guys come in! I know there are guys out here that have done tons of mods to keepimproving - just figured that I could tap into some of this knowledge and skip some of those steps! [sm=hail.gif]
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#8
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Ok, you asked for opinions, so I will give you mine, please don't shoot the messenger. Here goes:
Now, with my comments above, and if you get the response from the dealer that other dealers wont necesarily honor the warranty (if he says that they will, you really need to double check with HD as you will get a different answer) you might want to investigate a kit build by somone like Headquarters, or GMR. More bang for the buck if that is what you are after.
ORIGINAL: mbsix2
After a lot of debate, I have decided to go to my local HD dealer to have my engine mods done. They are saving me some good money, more likely to honor warranty,The question to ask is will all dealers honor the warranty? Some dealers will honor performance mods they do, but the dealer network will leave you out in the cold if there is a problem aeay from home.and I have heard good things about their custom motor tech. They will be using all SE parts. I know there are other parts out there that might be better, other shops that will do a better build, etc...but I have my reasons.
This build is not yet set-in-stone yet - I am open to change & would love to hear your honest opinions on what they are suggesting...
Here is what I have already on the bike: SERT, Rinehart TDs, SE Heavy Breather w/90* elbow. Those we great additions and I got noticable gains from them. Dyno'd out at 84hp @5200rpm and 105ft lbs tq @3500rpm
Here is what they suggest (all SE parts):
ACR Performance Heads #17165-08 I am not familiar with this part number, but if similar to previous performance heads, gains are acceptable but can be bettered by almost any other aftermaket company redoing your stock heads. (I do like the idea of auto compression release)
Roller Rockers #17378-98 Not necessary, I am not running them on my 120, Spend you money on something else.
Rocker Arm Supports #17675-01B Optional unless really runing a high lift cam-.600 lift or higher. For the 264 cams they might be a good idea, but again, not really necessary.
Perfect Push Rods #18416-04
Tappets XL/TC8 #18572-07 Stock lifters will be just fine
Pistons 3 7/8" #22137-08
Cam 264 # 25476-06 This is an all out high lift, mid to top end torque, top end HP cam, not really what I would call suitable for a bagger. The 258 or even better, the 253 will bring the torque down in the rpm range ( I really suggest that this be the one place that you depart from your all HD build. A woods TW6 or HQ575 will get you more punch in the lower range and carry on through the mid to top.
50mm Throttle Body # 27623-05 Save your money here also, your stock TB will be fine, although you may want to go with the se 4.89gm/sec injectors
Performance Clutch Kit # 37969-03
They said they did this to the same bike I have '07 Street Glide and got 112hp @5700rpm and 112ft lbs tq @ 4000rpm. I talked to the owner of that bikeand he loves the build and is very happy with the performance of his bike now.
I like to run my bike hard, mostly back roads, but I do get up on the highway, so I'd like the best of both worlds really - good pulling throughout. There has been much debate about which cams to use. Should I go to a 251 or 255, or 258 to achieve better lower-end torque? Looking at this guys dyno chart, it starts to wake up at about 3000rpm and starts to drop off around 5000rpm, but hp is a steady rise and crosses torque at 5300rpm. Also, should I have them use the Cometic .030 head gaskets to bump up compression some more? The more I read these forums, the more I wonder what to do!!! I need your help.
After a lot of debate, I have decided to go to my local HD dealer to have my engine mods done. They are saving me some good money, more likely to honor warranty,The question to ask is will all dealers honor the warranty? Some dealers will honor performance mods they do, but the dealer network will leave you out in the cold if there is a problem aeay from home.and I have heard good things about their custom motor tech. They will be using all SE parts. I know there are other parts out there that might be better, other shops that will do a better build, etc...but I have my reasons.
This build is not yet set-in-stone yet - I am open to change & would love to hear your honest opinions on what they are suggesting...
Here is what I have already on the bike: SERT, Rinehart TDs, SE Heavy Breather w/90* elbow. Those we great additions and I got noticable gains from them. Dyno'd out at 84hp @5200rpm and 105ft lbs tq @3500rpm
Here is what they suggest (all SE parts):
ACR Performance Heads #17165-08 I am not familiar with this part number, but if similar to previous performance heads, gains are acceptable but can be bettered by almost any other aftermaket company redoing your stock heads. (I do like the idea of auto compression release)
Roller Rockers #17378-98 Not necessary, I am not running them on my 120, Spend you money on something else.
Rocker Arm Supports #17675-01B Optional unless really runing a high lift cam-.600 lift or higher. For the 264 cams they might be a good idea, but again, not really necessary.
Perfect Push Rods #18416-04
Tappets XL/TC8 #18572-07 Stock lifters will be just fine
Pistons 3 7/8" #22137-08
Cam 264 # 25476-06 This is an all out high lift, mid to top end torque, top end HP cam, not really what I would call suitable for a bagger. The 258 or even better, the 253 will bring the torque down in the rpm range ( I really suggest that this be the one place that you depart from your all HD build. A woods TW6 or HQ575 will get you more punch in the lower range and carry on through the mid to top.
50mm Throttle Body # 27623-05 Save your money here also, your stock TB will be fine, although you may want to go with the se 4.89gm/sec injectors
Performance Clutch Kit # 37969-03
They said they did this to the same bike I have '07 Street Glide and got 112hp @5700rpm and 112ft lbs tq @ 4000rpm. I talked to the owner of that bikeand he loves the build and is very happy with the performance of his bike now.
I like to run my bike hard, mostly back roads, but I do get up on the highway, so I'd like the best of both worlds really - good pulling throughout. There has been much debate about which cams to use. Should I go to a 251 or 255, or 258 to achieve better lower-end torque? Looking at this guys dyno chart, it starts to wake up at about 3000rpm and starts to drop off around 5000rpm, but hp is a steady rise and crosses torque at 5300rpm. Also, should I have them use the Cometic .030 head gaskets to bump up compression some more? The more I read these forums, the more I wonder what to do!!! I need your help.
#9
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mb: Trust is a hugefactor for those of us who are not widely experienced in engine building and the components required for a reliable build. Your dealer "suggested" roller rockers, forged rocker support plates, and a throttle body that you don't need; or, about 1200 bucks worth of unnecessary expense--I'd find a different dealer. You will also experience "upselling" from independents who, like your dealer, make good money on these same unnecessary parts.
One of the abiding values of Doug and Kevin at Head-Quarters is that they don't upsell their retail customers who, for the most part, are like most of us--novices as what's required for an engine build.
If you are willing to consider non-HD equipment for a powerful and reliable build, try HQ:
http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/customtwintype.html
Talk to Doug or Kevin; no BS.
One of the abiding values of Doug and Kevin at Head-Quarters is that they don't upsell their retail customers who, for the most part, are like most of us--novices as what's required for an engine build.
If you are willing to consider non-HD equipment for a powerful and reliable build, try HQ:
http://www.head-quarters-usa.com/customtwintype.html
Talk to Doug or Kevin; no BS.
#10
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I read your Q
This what you should do. Call Boulder Choppers In Henderson NV ask for Kenny Piefer 702 558 2242. He built me a rocket 95" That lasted 5yrs of open throttle ridin and I mean WFO riding. It runs, It runs FAST REAL FAST!
The bike Tops out at 141mph Stock gearing. Revs to 7000+rpm smokes the tire till Iback off throttle, (that dosent happen often). He did the build. But that is if you want to go fast. Go to youtube look up
Boulder choppers That would be my bike and me doing what it can do. It never left me strainded, I rode it to Struggis 2 times back and forth to Vegas about 20 times It is my summer daily driver.
Good luck
SLOW JOE
This what you should do. Call Boulder Choppers In Henderson NV ask for Kenny Piefer 702 558 2242. He built me a rocket 95" That lasted 5yrs of open throttle ridin and I mean WFO riding. It runs, It runs FAST REAL FAST!
The bike Tops out at 141mph Stock gearing. Revs to 7000+rpm smokes the tire till Iback off throttle, (that dosent happen often). He did the build. But that is if you want to go fast. Go to youtube look up
Boulder choppers That would be my bike and me doing what it can do. It never left me strainded, I rode it to Struggis 2 times back and forth to Vegas about 20 times It is my summer daily driver.
Good luck
SLOW JOE
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