New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
#51
03-15-2008 | 07:23 PM
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From:
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
Do you have 07 data?, I heard it on the news a few months ago about the rate is up from 10 years ago. This got my attention due to the fact I am in the collision industry.
back in the 60's and 70's, drinking and driving was not a sport, but a requirement.
Most cars where equipped with abs and air bags around 95-98, Do you see a change in the numbers you have provided with these new saftey products?
My point is... These saftey products make the buyer think they are a lotsafer than without them, thus maybe driving faster, farther, longer than they normaly would have. Dont get me wrong here, I think saftey on the road is a top priority, and it is great that cars and bike are safer also. But... the marketing of these products has got me wound-up. Just look in the Thunder press at anadd from HD, they are talking about the new ABS on the 08 ultra in a sales promo,
I can not quot it exactly, but it says to the effect," All a rider has to do is jam on the brakes, with this new ABS" As if you can put a new rider on a new bike, hit the gas and use that new abs if a problem should arise. I'm sorry, but in myopinion, I can think of 100 things that would make a new rider safe other than a big touring bike with ABS. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the data
back in the 60's and 70's, drinking and driving was not a sport, but a requirement.
Most cars where equipped with abs and air bags around 95-98, Do you see a change in the numbers you have provided with these new saftey products?
My point is... These saftey products make the buyer think they are a lotsafer than without them, thus maybe driving faster, farther, longer than they normaly would have. Dont get me wrong here, I think saftey on the road is a top priority, and it is great that cars and bike are safer also. But... the marketing of these products has got me wound-up. Just look in the Thunder press at anadd from HD, they are talking about the new ABS on the 08 ultra in a sales promo,
I can not quot it exactly, but it says to the effect," All a rider has to do is jam on the brakes, with this new ABS" As if you can put a new rider on a new bike, hit the gas and use that new abs if a problem should arise. I'm sorry, but in myopinion, I can think of 100 things that would make a new rider safe other than a big touring bike with ABS. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the data
#52
03-15-2008 | 07:59 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,415
Likes: 197
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: ratcat
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
Youall reckon that might have something to do with all the cell phones, computers, radios,Ipods, ETC. that people are constantly fooling with while they are attempting to drive? That doesn't even take into account the people reading books and other printed material or Women trying to do their hair and makeup while driving. The US Department Of Transportation just completed a study of cell phone use in a moving vehicle and concluded it was as bad as a drunk driver with a 1 BAC! That WILL get you a DUI most anywhere! I expect a National ban on cell phone use in a moving vehicle soon and it won't be soon enough! While I was driving OTR the ATA said that was the #1 contributing factor in DOT reportable accidents!
#53
03-15-2008 | 09:52 PM
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 2,847
Likes: 0
From: Missouri
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: twincam47
The 2008 owners manual "...Changing to different diameter wheels or different tire sizes can alter the rotational speed. This can upset the calibration of the ABS and have an adverse effect on its ability to detect and prevent lockups. Tire inflation pressure that is significantly low also can have an adverse effect.
[/quote]
Iam gonna disagree because this is not a linked system, the front brake doesnt affect the rear and visa versa. The system is designed to read wheel lockup based on a magnetic pickup on the wheel bearing. OD of the tire doesnt affect when the bearing is turning or not, it doesaffect rotational speed but that changes with increased or decreased mph anyway.
I agree with 1Harleyrdr that its justlegal BS like all the thousands of words in the service manual about things that can cause serious death or injury!
[/quote]
First,
The Digital Technician is used to "cycle" the solenoids in the ABS controller to bleed the air out of the solenoids. The solenoids are closed (inactive-bypassed) under normal braking. During an ABS activation event the solenoids become active and control the pressure to the calipers instead of the operator, given that the same amount of squeeze or foot force is still being applied which would normally cause the wheels to lock. Merely changing brake lines would not allow air to enter the ABS solenoids, changing the ABS controller would necessitate the Digital Technician bleeding procedure. However, if the brakes were improperly bled and air was in the system, it could travel around the system and get into the solenoids whenever there was an ABS activation event. If you are unsure, have your dealer perform the Digital Technician bleed procedure for you.
Secondly,
Tire/wheel circumference does affect bearing rotation speed. Although the front and rear brakes are NOT linked and remain independent they are still being monitored by the ABS controller independently and for comparison purposes as part of its programmed operation. This ABS system not only uses the wheel speed/bearing sensors for information it is also tied to the ECM of the bike for other information used in its decision making process. The ABS controller recognizes rapid deceleration from heavy braking and places itself in the "get ready it could happen" mode through information obtained from the ECM and the wheel speed sensors. There is some tolerance allowed between information that it receives from the front and rear wheel built into the system function. It does not know that you have put an 18" front wheel on BUT it could recognize that the different signals that it is receiving is out of the "tolerance zone" or better stated "out of its programmed parameters" and it leaves it no option other than tripping the ABS default light making the ABS system inactive. Thus the warnings in the owners manual.
This applies to the 2008 bikes. The 2005-2007 Police ABS version is a "stand alone" system not tied to the ECM but still uses most of the systems as stated above which is contained in the controller itself.
[/quote]It wouldn't take much to know more than me and you no doubt do. But I don't understand what wheel speed has to do with sensing wheel lockup. The sensor is looking for lockup not constant speed of the wheel. But here's what I do know, I changed wheel size on my ABS bike and It works the same as before and I have tried it many times to see if it acted any different. And I have never had a ABS warning light come on. You would thi
#54
03-16-2008 | 06:06 AM
Road Warrior
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,830
Likes: 8
From: Retired and living in the mountains of NE PA
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: ratcat
Do you have 07 data?, I heard it on the news a few months ago about the rate is up from 10 years ago. This got my attention due to the fact I am in the collision industry.
back in the 60's and 70's, drinking and driving was not a sport, but a requirement.
Most cars where equipped with abs and air bags around 95-98, Do you see a change in the numbers you have provided with these new saftey products?
My point is... These saftey products make the buyer think they are a lotsafer than without them, thus maybe driving faster, farther, longer than they normaly would have. Dont get me wrong here, I think saftey on the road is a top priority, and it is great that cars and bike are safer also. But... the marketing of these products has got me wound-up. Just look in the Thunder press at anadd from HD, they are talking about the new ABS on the 08 ultra in a sales promo,
I can not quot it exactly, but it says to the effect," All a rider has to do is jam on the brakes, with this new ABS" As if you can put a new rider on a new bike, hit the gas and use that new abs if a problem should arise. I'm sorry, but in myopinion, I can think of 100 things that would make a new rider safe other than a big touring bike with ABS. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the data
Do you have 07 data?, I heard it on the news a few months ago about the rate is up from 10 years ago. This got my attention due to the fact I am in the collision industry.
back in the 60's and 70's, drinking and driving was not a sport, but a requirement.
Most cars where equipped with abs and air bags around 95-98, Do you see a change in the numbers you have provided with these new saftey products?
My point is... These saftey products make the buyer think they are a lotsafer than without them, thus maybe driving faster, farther, longer than they normaly would have. Dont get me wrong here, I think saftey on the road is a top priority, and it is great that cars and bike are safer also. But... the marketing of these products has got me wound-up. Just look in the Thunder press at anadd from HD, they are talking about the new ABS on the 08 ultra in a sales promo,
I can not quot it exactly, but it says to the effect," All a rider has to do is jam on the brakes, with this new ABS" As if you can put a new rider on a new bike, hit the gas and use that new abs if a problem should arise. I'm sorry, but in myopinion, I can think of 100 things that would make a new rider safe other than a big touring bike with ABS. Just my opinion.
Thanks for the data
#55
03-16-2008 | 06:33 AM
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 9,486
Likes: 3
From: Hico, TX (once home to Billy the Kid)
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: XTrooper3936
Who told you that horseshit? FYI, the highway fatality rate has been relatively steady for the last 10+ years with the rates being in the low 40K range. To put this into perspective, back in the 1960's and 1970's when I began my career, highway fatality rates in the 50,000-60,000 range were the norm and this was during a time when there were less licensed drivers and less registered vehicles on the road than there are today. Things are WAY better now.
Take a look here-----> http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
Who told you that horseshit? FYI, the highway fatality rate has been relatively steady for the last 10+ years with the rates being in the low 40K range. To put this into perspective, back in the 1960's and 1970's when I began my career, highway fatality rates in the 50,000-60,000 range were the norm and this was during a time when there were less licensed drivers and less registered vehicles on the road than there are today. Things are WAY better now.
Take a look here-----> http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx
From 1994 to 2006 you can see a steady decline from year to year and all the way across in every catagory.
It even shows that miles traveled has gone UP every year.
The population has gone up every year.
Registered vehicles have gone up in number every year.
And licensed drivers have gone up every year.
Hmmm, kind of puts a damper on alot of other arguments (in the form of rumors) that have been posted.
Thanks.
#56
03-16-2008 | 09:08 AM
Tourer
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From:
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
Thanks for the input Steve and the data, I'll be sure to have hardfacts in print in the future if I have something to say. I do have 2 rumors of the increase in 07, at which time the National Enquirer would call that a fact.
Going riding now, thanks for helping keep are hyw's safe.
Going riding now, thanks for helping keep are hyw's safe.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
13RoadKing
Frame/Suspension/Front End/Brakes
24
03-10-2017 09:13 PM
