New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
#41
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: ratcat
I can tell ya'll that if you open up an ABS system in a car, meaning replace a line, disconecting the abs actuator, or master cylinder, anything up wind of the brakes themselves, It will need to go to the Dealer to bleed the high pressure side of thesystem. I can say this, being a journeymancollision tech of 27 years. I don't do about the harley system though.
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
I can tell ya'll that if you open up an ABS system in a car, meaning replace a line, disconecting the abs actuator, or master cylinder, anything up wind of the brakes themselves, It will need to go to the Dealer to bleed the high pressure side of thesystem. I can say this, being a journeymancollision tech of 27 years. I don't do about the harley system though.
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
#42
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: hogdoc
Coincidently what else has gone up in the last 10 years? Stupid bitches driving with a CELL PHONE stuck to their head not looking were they are going!!!!!
ORIGINAL: ratcat
I can tell ya'll that if you open up an ABS system in a car, meaning replace a line, disconecting the abs actuator, or master cylinder, anything up wind of the brakes themselves, It will need to go to the Dealer to bleed the high pressure side of thesystem. I can say this, being a journeymancollision tech of 27 years. I don't do about the harley system though.
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
I can tell ya'll that if you open up an ABS system in a car, meaning replace a line, disconecting the abs actuator, or master cylinder, anything up wind of the brakes themselves, It will need to go to the Dealer to bleed the high pressure side of thesystem. I can say this, being a journeymancollision tech of 27 years. I don't do about the harley system though.
As far as saving money on ins.?
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
#44
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
[/quote]
I might take another look at this one.....the stock wheels on the tourers are 16 x 3....changing the front to an 18" without changing the back could/would impact the ABS controllers reading of the front andrear wheels and trip the default light inactivating the ABS unit. If the circumference of the wheel is the same then I would say there is not a problem......
The 2008 owners manual "...Changing to different diameter wheels or different tire sizes can alter the rotational speed. This can upset the calibration of the ABS and have an adverse effect on its ability to detect and prevent lockups. Tire inflation pressure that is significantly low also can have an adverse effect.
[/quote]
Iam gonna disagree because this is not a linked system, the front brake doesnt affect the rear and visa versa. The system is designed to read wheel lockup based on a magnetic pickup on the wheel bearing. OD of the tire doesnt affect when the bearing is turning or not, it doesaffect rotational speed but that changes with increased or decreased mph anyway.
I agree with 1Harleyrdr that its justlegal BS like all the thousands of words in the service manual about things that can cause serious death or injury!
[/quote]
First,
The Digital Technician is used to "cycle" the solenoids in the ABS controller to bleed the air out of the solenoids. The solenoids are closed (inactive-bypassed) under normal braking. During an ABS activation event the solenoids become active and control the pressure to the calipers instead of the operator, given that the same amount of squeeze or foot force is still being applied which would normally cause the wheels to lock. Merely changing brake lines would not allow air to enter the ABS solenoids, changing the ABS controller would necessitate the Digital Technician bleeding procedure. However, if the brakes were improperly bled and air was in the system, it could travel around the system and get into the solenoids whenever there was an ABS activation event. If you are unsure, have your dealer perform the Digital Technician bleed procedure for you.
Secondly,
Tire/wheel circumference does affect bearing rotation speed. Although the front and rear brakes are NOT linked and remain independent they are still being monitored by the ABS controller independently and for comparison purposes as part of its programmed operation. This ABS system not only uses the wheel speed/bearing sensors for information it is also tied to the ECM of the bike for other information used in its decision making process. The ABS controller recognizes rapid deceleration from heavy braking and places itself in the "get ready it could happen" mode through information obtained from the ECM and the wheel speed sensors. There is some tolerance allowed between information that it receives from the front and rear wheel built into the system function. It does not know that you have put an 18" front wheel on BUT it could recognize that the different signals that it is receiving is out of the "tolerance zone" or better stated "out of its programmed parameters" and it leaves it no option other than tripping the ABS default light making the ABS system inactive. Thus the warnings in the owners manual.
This applies to the 2008 bikes. The 2005-2007 Police ABS version is a "stand alone" system not tied to the ECM but still uses most of the systems as stated above which is contained in the controller itself.
I might take another look at this one.....the stock wheels on the tourers are 16 x 3....changing the front to an 18" without changing the back could/would impact the ABS controllers reading of the front andrear wheels and trip the default light inactivating the ABS unit. If the circumference of the wheel is the same then I would say there is not a problem......
The 2008 owners manual "...Changing to different diameter wheels or different tire sizes can alter the rotational speed. This can upset the calibration of the ABS and have an adverse effect on its ability to detect and prevent lockups. Tire inflation pressure that is significantly low also can have an adverse effect.
[/quote]
Iam gonna disagree because this is not a linked system, the front brake doesnt affect the rear and visa versa. The system is designed to read wheel lockup based on a magnetic pickup on the wheel bearing. OD of the tire doesnt affect when the bearing is turning or not, it doesaffect rotational speed but that changes with increased or decreased mph anyway.
I agree with 1Harleyrdr that its justlegal BS like all the thousands of words in the service manual about things that can cause serious death or injury!
[/quote]
First,
The Digital Technician is used to "cycle" the solenoids in the ABS controller to bleed the air out of the solenoids. The solenoids are closed (inactive-bypassed) under normal braking. During an ABS activation event the solenoids become active and control the pressure to the calipers instead of the operator, given that the same amount of squeeze or foot force is still being applied which would normally cause the wheels to lock. Merely changing brake lines would not allow air to enter the ABS solenoids, changing the ABS controller would necessitate the Digital Technician bleeding procedure. However, if the brakes were improperly bled and air was in the system, it could travel around the system and get into the solenoids whenever there was an ABS activation event. If you are unsure, have your dealer perform the Digital Technician bleed procedure for you.
Secondly,
Tire/wheel circumference does affect bearing rotation speed. Although the front and rear brakes are NOT linked and remain independent they are still being monitored by the ABS controller independently and for comparison purposes as part of its programmed operation. This ABS system not only uses the wheel speed/bearing sensors for information it is also tied to the ECM of the bike for other information used in its decision making process. The ABS controller recognizes rapid deceleration from heavy braking and places itself in the "get ready it could happen" mode through information obtained from the ECM and the wheel speed sensors. There is some tolerance allowed between information that it receives from the front and rear wheel built into the system function. It does not know that you have put an 18" front wheel on BUT it could recognize that the different signals that it is receiving is out of the "tolerance zone" or better stated "out of its programmed parameters" and it leaves it no option other than tripping the ABS default light making the ABS system inactive. Thus the warnings in the owners manual.
This applies to the 2008 bikes. The 2005-2007 Police ABS version is a "stand alone" system not tied to the ECM but still uses most of the systems as stated above which is contained in the controller itself.
#47
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
My 2008 Ultra w/ABS picked up a nail in the rear tire,only had 900 miles on her.I had to buy a new one. The dealer in Tucson put the new tire on & I was off & running.No extra charge,calibration.Also,Lyndall Racing brakes makes pads for the new ABS Brembos. Regards,Tom
#48
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
And I almost forgot...to the original thread post.
ABS vs non-ABS
The calipers are same part numbers.
The pads are the same part numbers.
There is no alignment of anything other than regular/proper alignment of the wheel and its components when removing and replacing.
No calibration of anything....as of right now the Digital Technician can only diagnose problems with the ABS system...such as a bad wheel sensor and toggle the ABS controller solenoids for bleeding purposes.
This would also be the same for the 2005-2007 Police ABS systems even though they have Hayes brake systems and a Nissin controller as opposed to the 2008 system which has Brembo Brake systems with a Delphi controller.
ABS vs non-ABS
The calipers are same part numbers.
The pads are the same part numbers.
There is no alignment of anything other than regular/proper alignment of the wheel and its components when removing and replacing.
No calibration of anything....as of right now the Digital Technician can only diagnose problems with the ABS system...such as a bad wheel sensor and toggle the ABS controller solenoids for bleeding purposes.
This would also be the same for the 2005-2007 Police ABS systems even though they have Hayes brake systems and a Nissin controller as opposed to the 2008 system which has Brembo Brake systems with a Delphi controller.
#50
RE: New ABS maintenance and upkeep cost?!
ORIGINAL: ratcat
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
Did you know that in the past 10 years, the fatality rate on our nations highways has gone up...in spite of all the new traction control devices and multi system airbags.
Take a look here-----> http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/Main/index.aspx