This turned out to be false. There were several riders who later got it to turn by leaning once they got used to the bike. They just needed a little time to get used to it.

Bikes are built so that the front wheel turns in the direction of the turn once the bike leans. Ask anyone who cruises with their hands off the grips. Yes, I know that is stupid, unsafe, crazy, bla bla bla, but leaning is how they control the bike.

Beary

 

...Thatactually happened to a group of rice rocket riders last summer up here on FSR 19. All five bikes ended up on their side... riders ok ...They were in the getting the 'stuff' back together stage when I came upon them. No one hurt, bikes still rideable .. just a few loose items on the pavement, with gravel scrapped leathers. (One side of the road is a bar ditch the other a drop-off to the river.) One of the riders did mention counter-steering ... quote: "I should of putmore grease in the pan and turned up the heat"

I counter steer ... and let fast riders pass me on the gravel patches.

 

I think you're getting into semantics here. Yes, the bike needs to "lean" in the direction you want it to turn. Nobody is disputing that. Thepoint that Skratch was trying to make was that it's very difficult to "initiate" a turn with any kind of speed or precision "without" countersteering first. It's the countersteer input that forces the bike over to the angle that gets it turning in the desired direction. Once that angle has been achieved, the countersteer input is no longer required until it's opposite is used to straighten the bike back up again.

The key words on your response are in the first sentense of the second paragraph. I quote you here with a slight modification for emphisis:

It's takes the countersteering input to get it to lean in the first place. "Afterwords," what you say is true. Anyone who says they can control the bike as well with "just" weight shifting and no countersteering is either riding a very light bike at relatively sedate speeds or totally full of of it!

Ride Safe,
Steve R.

 

What does countersteering actually do???? Now think real hard, you push forward on the left grip and the bikes does what??

Oh yeah...it leans..... and it leans a whole lot faster and father than you can phyically make it by just attempting to lean it with a weight shift of your body.

On my Ultra if I shift my weightI shift 210 pounds..... and then ........850+ pounds of bike reacts to that shift.

If I countersteer, I shift 1070+ pounds all at once(Bike and me will lean all at once).

 

The (cross-section) smaller curvature of the side of the tire causes the bike to turn. Like rolling a cone on a flat surface. It goes in circles. Just what a tire does when it's patch is ina smaller circumference. It forces the bike to go in the direction of the pressure applied because of the increased number of revolutions on the inside versus the apex of the tire. Hard to explain without drawing pictures.
There's a great book out by David Hough called Proficient Motorcycling where he goes into the physics.
Anyway, thanks everyone for the input. I'm glad I caught some interest in this subjectbecause it is fundimental to riding a motorcycle.
Ride safe this weekend.
Jim

 

Hey, I didn't post that study here. All I said was the conclusions are incorrect and a bike can be steered by leaning. Yes a bike will lean after a initating a steering input, but that is not what the the two handle bars bike study was trying prove or disprove.

I conceed your the experts. So, why does a bike lean left when you push push left? If you agree the wheel has to turn left to turn the bike left, then how does that work by pushing the wheel right with counter pressure?

Barry

 

BINGO...That right there is a perfect explanation of what's going on when we turn a bike. Before I began riding road bikes, I rode several dirt bikes, and all of it was self-taught.It wasn't untilmy wife took the Rider's Edge class that Ilearned what was meant by counter-steering. Now that I know, I 'consciously' use it all of the time. I suppose that I was always doing it, but now that I'm conscious of what's going on, its a lot more fun to experiment with.

 

Actually it is a good explanation of a large part of what turns the bike. But to just use that as the entire basis would cause one to believe that we couldn't control the amount of turn achieved.

One of the best explanations of steering dynamics in motorcycles can be found here.......... (click link)

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP048.html

 

You all have it wrong. The thread is about counter-stear not counter steering... [sm=huh.gif]hehehe


STEAR is not available in the general English dictionary and thesaurus.

 

Holy crap, guys - this isn't a thread about rocket science!!! Bottom line, I've been riding since 1975 and I don't care what some genius says about how to steer (or stear) a bike, it takes experience and finesse to ride a bike. Period!