Lithium Battery/Starter in Touring Bike
#111
Took me some time to read through, but don't like to reply without seeing all the posts...
I put the HD LiFePo battery in several years ago (wanted the Batteries+ for lower $$, but didn't want to wait). Mine is the smaller battery with the box filler...
LiFePo batteries are not the fire hazard some claim... just sayin'.
They do struggle in the cold. Real world, I ride early spring/late fall in temps down into 20's. While bike outside (while at work), and temps don't rise, starting is troublesome.
The instructions are to allow it to "wake-up" with the key on... LED lights all around don't draw much power to do this. And who wants to sit for 3 minutes or so doing nothing in the cold...
Cycling the starter will get it there, but you see an affect. The volt meter will drop way down and electronics go funky. And it will take several tries to get it to crank over. For me being a cold weather rider, I'm not sure I like this.
LiFePo have very slow discharge rates and a flat power curve, so you have plenty of power until the battery is discharged. They can be taken all the way down, and recharged without harm vs. an AGM (more of an RV thing, but still relevant). During winter storage, I will use a Battery Tender with an Li switch, but not needed otherwise because of this power curve and slow discharge.
The LiFePo's are phenomenal for our RV's, but also, mine have a self-contained heated system to not allow them to go dormant due to below freezing temps. For these RV systems, they will function below freezing, but shouldn't be charged if not heated. I've often thought about this for my cycle battery, but figure once motor is running, heat from engine helps.
As far as heat, this is not a problem from my research. Folks are using in Death Valley for weeks on end in their RV's...
All that said, I hope this adds to the thoughts 702...
Ride on,
pcboiler
I put the HD LiFePo battery in several years ago (wanted the Batteries+ for lower $$, but didn't want to wait). Mine is the smaller battery with the box filler...
LiFePo batteries are not the fire hazard some claim... just sayin'.
They do struggle in the cold. Real world, I ride early spring/late fall in temps down into 20's. While bike outside (while at work), and temps don't rise, starting is troublesome.
The instructions are to allow it to "wake-up" with the key on... LED lights all around don't draw much power to do this. And who wants to sit for 3 minutes or so doing nothing in the cold...
Cycling the starter will get it there, but you see an affect. The volt meter will drop way down and electronics go funky. And it will take several tries to get it to crank over. For me being a cold weather rider, I'm not sure I like this.
LiFePo have very slow discharge rates and a flat power curve, so you have plenty of power until the battery is discharged. They can be taken all the way down, and recharged without harm vs. an AGM (more of an RV thing, but still relevant). During winter storage, I will use a Battery Tender with an Li switch, but not needed otherwise because of this power curve and slow discharge.
The LiFePo's are phenomenal for our RV's, but also, mine have a self-contained heated system to not allow them to go dormant due to below freezing temps. For these RV systems, they will function below freezing, but shouldn't be charged if not heated. I've often thought about this for my cycle battery, but figure once motor is running, heat from engine helps.
As far as heat, this is not a problem from my research. Folks are using in Death Valley for weeks on end in their RV's...
All that said, I hope this adds to the thoughts 702...
Ride on,
pcboiler
#112
#113
No hesitation. I don’t time it or anything, but works great. Push the button, engine cranks.
Also, not seen any drop off as I’ve thought with AGM.
The cost of entry also includes the idea that it will last many more years than a wet cell. Maybe too soon to see with the cycle industry (tho some of us early adopters will be getting there). But this has played out in the RV industry as LiFePo are proving to be much better for that power use scenario and lasting longer.
As costs come together, this will be an easier decision.
pc
The following users liked this post:
Old New Rider (02-20-2024)
#114
Zero concerns when warmer (above 40 or sitting in sun on cooler day).
No hesitation. I don’t time it or anything, but works great. Push the button, engine cranks.
Also, not seen any drop off as I’ve thought with AGM.
The cost of entry also includes the idea that it will last many more years than a wet cell. Maybe too soon to see with the cycle industry (tho some of us early adopters will be getting there). But this has played out in the RV industry as LiFePo are proving to be much better for that power use scenario and lasting longer.
As costs come together, this will be an easier decision.
pc
No hesitation. I don’t time it or anything, but works great. Push the button, engine cranks.
Also, not seen any drop off as I’ve thought with AGM.
The cost of entry also includes the idea that it will last many more years than a wet cell. Maybe too soon to see with the cycle industry (tho some of us early adopters will be getting there). But this has played out in the RV industry as LiFePo are proving to be much better for that power use scenario and lasting longer.
As costs come together, this will be an easier decision.
pc
#115
The OP did not go with a MoCo battery to test it. The OP has not purchased a lithium battery yet. But when he does it will not be one from HD.
The following users liked this post:
bson (02-21-2024)
#116
Getting frustrated myself. Maybe just get an upgraded AGM from 310 CCA Harley OEM to East Penn Duracell (Deka) 400 CCA.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc.../2021/cyl10009
The following users liked this post:
Goose_NC (02-20-2024)
#117
Apologies - multiple threads going on the same subject, per usual. On one of these the OP did so such.
Getting frustrated myself. Maybe just get an upgraded AGM from 310 CCA Harley OEM to East Penn Duracell (Deka) 400 CCA.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc.../2021/cyl10009
Getting frustrated myself. Maybe just get an upgraded AGM from 310 CCA Harley OEM to East Penn Duracell (Deka) 400 CCA.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc.../2021/cyl10009
Now, do some research on the difference of what a CCA rating is, versus a pulse cranking rating. AGM = CCA, Lithium = pulse crank rating. They are not the same.
The following 3 users liked this post by 702:
#118
Apologies - multiple threads going on the same subject, per usual. On one of these the OP did so such.
Getting frustrated myself. Maybe just get an upgraded AGM from 310 CCA Harley OEM to East Penn Duracell (Deka) 400 CCA.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc.../2021/cyl10009
Getting frustrated myself. Maybe just get an upgraded AGM from 310 CCA Harley OEM to East Penn Duracell (Deka) 400 CCA.....
https://www.batteriesplus.com/produc.../2021/cyl10009
AFAIK that is a 30L format battery. It won't fit even to BM says it will fit a heritage.. IIRC you need a 20L format.. You can compare dimensions in the Specs.
The following users liked this post:
Old New Rider (02-20-2024)
#119
I'm very familiar with CCA. We used it at work for decades. Amperage output of a new battery @ 0 deg F for 30 seconds.
https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...oogle_vignette
What I do not know, and why I'm watching here, is why an AGM battery does not last as long in a motorcycle as in a car or truck. I don't get it. AGM lasts 5-7 years in automotive, only 3-5 max. in motorcycles. Why? My battery is going on 4 years this year. It is the original. A couple times last summer it lost ability to crank engine. I ride 3-4 times a week. I have to keep it on the charger. I didn't the 1st two years.
I also know trying to pack a tiny battery in a motorcycle means ampacity is critical for starting a 1746cc (in my case M8 107), two cylinder, odd-firing engine. 350 CCA is fine in my UTV and tractor - it is marginal in my bike.
I also know LiFePo batteries quit working at cold temperature - they can't be rated for CCA. But - they don't say at what temperature the amp output new is rated at, so you can't compare AGM with LiFePo @ 70 degs F, the lowest temp at which I ride. I get that tourers probably need an AGM due to the risk of LiFePo crapping out in the mountains, etc. I have read that owners get faster cranking with LiFePo at same temperature.
I also know battery space is limited in the little container under the seat. So we can't just be any similar battery - if it's too big. If it's too small, have to shim it.
I plan to pull my battery shortly and measure it. MoCo doesn't post sizes, probably to prevent aftermarket fit comparisons. Under battery Q&A, there were some size responses.
Stock AGM p/n 66000343
Q&A Replies:
CCA = 310
Size = 7.02"l x 3.34"w x 6.14h
Stock AGM p/n 66000344
CCA = 330
Size = 6.7l x 3.80"w x 6.10"h
For whatever reason, if AGM's last half as long as LiFePo in bikes, and lose cranking amps, it would make sense to me go with LiFePo. A perfect fit would be MoCo's, yet owner experiences has been very spotty with quality.
I don't see how there is any clarity here.
btw, the East Penn Duracell AGM recommendation is much wider, so probably doesn't fit.
https://batteryuniversity.com/articl...oogle_vignette
What I do not know, and why I'm watching here, is why an AGM battery does not last as long in a motorcycle as in a car or truck. I don't get it. AGM lasts 5-7 years in automotive, only 3-5 max. in motorcycles. Why? My battery is going on 4 years this year. It is the original. A couple times last summer it lost ability to crank engine. I ride 3-4 times a week. I have to keep it on the charger. I didn't the 1st two years.
I also know trying to pack a tiny battery in a motorcycle means ampacity is critical for starting a 1746cc (in my case M8 107), two cylinder, odd-firing engine. 350 CCA is fine in my UTV and tractor - it is marginal in my bike.
I also know LiFePo batteries quit working at cold temperature - they can't be rated for CCA. But - they don't say at what temperature the amp output new is rated at, so you can't compare AGM with LiFePo @ 70 degs F, the lowest temp at which I ride. I get that tourers probably need an AGM due to the risk of LiFePo crapping out in the mountains, etc. I have read that owners get faster cranking with LiFePo at same temperature.
I also know battery space is limited in the little container under the seat. So we can't just be any similar battery - if it's too big. If it's too small, have to shim it.
I plan to pull my battery shortly and measure it. MoCo doesn't post sizes, probably to prevent aftermarket fit comparisons. Under battery Q&A, there were some size responses.
Stock AGM p/n 66000343
Q&A Replies:
CCA = 310
Size = 7.02"l x 3.34"w x 6.14h
Stock AGM p/n 66000344
CCA = 330
Size = 6.7l x 3.80"w x 6.10"h
For whatever reason, if AGM's last half as long as LiFePo in bikes, and lose cranking amps, it would make sense to me go with LiFePo. A perfect fit would be MoCo's, yet owner experiences has been very spotty with quality.
I don't see how there is any clarity here.
btw, the East Penn Duracell AGM recommendation is much wider, so probably doesn't fit.
Last edited by Old New Rider; 02-20-2024 at 11:24 AM.
#120
Hence, why this is absurdly frustrating to me. It's a fricking battery. Took me 10 minutes to figure out how to upgrade my truck battery to AGM.