ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
#1
ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
Actually it is! I too noticed the wonders of ThunderMax when I installedD&D FatCats on my 07 SG. But....when I replaced these with V&H Big ShotDuals, the bike ran like crap. I installed the Rinehart TD map (393) andgave it over 500miles to tune itself. It just couldn't tune out the heavy vibrations and sluggish pull from 2200-2700 rpms.
So.....I started looking into the timing after I downloaded the new version of the SmartLink software. I heard on other forums that the TMax base maps had very retarded timing to ensure customers did experience any detonation issues. I can see why they would do this to generalized base maps since this will satisfy most users. I needed to do a little work to the base map since I didn't have one of the three TMax base maps (stock, Rineharts, FatCats). I started with the Rinehart map and started to advance the timing. I was leary to do this since I didn't know much about it and didn't want to harm my bike. I searched all over to find recommended settings for TC96 timing maps. The best I could find was a base map for the Daytona Twin Tec ECM. After downloading the free software I was able to read how they setup the timing.
The differences between the TMax and DTT are very drastic. DTT has the timing way more advanced; as much as 7 degrees in some cases. I adjusted the TMax base map to match DTT's and gave the bike a run.
Wow!!! Most of the vibrations were gone and I can feel a significant gain in low end torque. That's exactly what I needed. So, if anyone's running the ThunderMax AutoTune ECM, you may want to look into advancing your timing. There is a lot more in your bike that you're not getting. Here's a copy of my map if you want to see how I've set it up.
You will need to download this file and rename the extension to *.slk so it will be recognized by the SmartLink software.
For example:
From: SEAC_BigShots5_0.txt
To: SEAC_BigShots5_0.slk
So.....I started looking into the timing after I downloaded the new version of the SmartLink software. I heard on other forums that the TMax base maps had very retarded timing to ensure customers did experience any detonation issues. I can see why they would do this to generalized base maps since this will satisfy most users. I needed to do a little work to the base map since I didn't have one of the three TMax base maps (stock, Rineharts, FatCats). I started with the Rinehart map and started to advance the timing. I was leary to do this since I didn't know much about it and didn't want to harm my bike. I searched all over to find recommended settings for TC96 timing maps. The best I could find was a base map for the Daytona Twin Tec ECM. After downloading the free software I was able to read how they setup the timing.
The differences between the TMax and DTT are very drastic. DTT has the timing way more advanced; as much as 7 degrees in some cases. I adjusted the TMax base map to match DTT's and gave the bike a run.
Wow!!! Most of the vibrations were gone and I can feel a significant gain in low end torque. That's exactly what I needed. So, if anyone's running the ThunderMax AutoTune ECM, you may want to look into advancing your timing. There is a lot more in your bike that you're not getting. Here's a copy of my map if you want to see how I've set it up.
You will need to download this file and rename the extension to *.slk so it will be recognized by the SmartLink software.
For example:
From: SEAC_BigShots5_0.txt
To: SEAC_BigShots5_0.slk
#3
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
I'd be REAL careful when taking timings from one unit and attempting them to run in a different component especially Speed density vs. Alpha-N concepts. If you take the timings from a SERT and try to apply them to a TMax you may end up with a Twin Cam engine full of twisted parts.
A dyno tune by a qualified tuner is the avenue I'd suggest if you felt timing was affected.
A dyno tune by a qualified tuner is the avenue I'd suggest if you felt timing was affected.
#4
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
I've run this setup with minimal issues. I did experience detonation from 2300 to 2700 rpms under load. It sounded like chirping right under the tank. I narrowed down the rpms, throttle position, and load when noticed and came back to the garage and tuned it out. If I have anything that comes up later I will quickly try to tune it out by lowering the timing in that range. If that doesn't work I'll reload the previous map. I certainly don't want any twisted parts, but I don't feel that adjusting the timing like this is too much of a risk.
I've run this setup with minimal issues. I did experience detonation from 2300 to 2700 rpms under load. It sounded like chirping right under the tank. I narrowed down the rpms, throttle position, and load when noticed and came back to the garage and tuned it out. If I have anything that comes up later I will quickly try to tune it out by lowering the timing in that range. If that doesn't work I'll reload the previous map. I certainly don't want any twisted parts, but I don't feel that adjusting the timing like this is too much of a risk.
#5
#7
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
ORIGINAL: Z_Stingray
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
And what's a tuner going to do? Advance the timing to detonation, then back it down a couple of degrees.
Hopefully KDietz will pipe in here soon... he's made some really significant progress with his TMax ~ specifically in the area of timing.
Trending Topics
#8
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
Z_Stingray....if you don't mind my asking, how did it run with the stock base map for the Fat Cats? I'm dead set on installing a TMax when I do pipes over the winter and have narrowed down my pipe choices with D&D as my first choice for now. Sure, I plan on tinkering with the setup once I'm comfortable with the unit but I wanted to be sure that I could plug and play out of the box in the meantime. Thanks.
-Nick
-Nick
#9
RE: ThunderMax Timing is RETARDED!
The base map for the FatCats runs great. Even better after I played with it a bit. Here's what I ended up with. I only tweaked the AFRs since the timing maps weren't open for editing then. I would still advance the timing on this map. If it was pulling great torque with this map, I can imagine advancing the timing would put a big smile on your face.
Follow the instructions above to rename the file.
Follow the instructions above to rename the file.