I will try make this as short as possible. I have a 2019 CVO Street Glide and bought a set of D&D Billet Cats (2 into 1) and a PowerVision tuner back in February. I had the pipes installed by a shop and the same guy, who came highly recommended, tune my bike on the Dyno using my PowerVision. It was the middle of winter here so I trailered the bike to his shop and trailered it back home. Shortly after, I injured myself and did not have a chance to ride the bike until August.

On my first ride, which totaled about 3 hours, there was so much heat coming from the bike, it burned my calf through my pants to the point it caused blistering. I reached out to the guy who tuned it and he said to bring it in and he would take a look. After thinking about it, I decided not to take t back to him because I strongly believe the issue was caused by a bad tune. I reached out to Dynojet and they were extremely helpful. I sent them a copy of my current map and they made some adjustments which did completely resolve the heat issue. However, I am now getting engine codes P0132 and P0152 which is 'Engine running rich (front)' and 'Engine Running Rich (rear)'. I clear the codes but they come back after riding for about 5 minutes.

I reached back out to Dynojet and they said to take a look at the VE tables, look at the cells around the idle area, and make the VE the same as idle or a little lower in the lower RPM and throttle position. They also said, to check the Closed Loop folder and set the 'Closed Loop Minimum MAP' to 23 and the 'Closed Loop Minimum MAP Hysteresis' to 20.

I checked the VE tables and the settings they asked me to make are already around the same values that they are asking me to change. The 'Closed Loop Minimum Map' and the 'Closed Loop Minimum Map Hysteresis' values are currently very different than what they asked me to set them to.

Does anyone know how changing the VE tables in the manner they requested and the closed loop values will help me with my engine running too rich? Can someone explain to me what these settings actually are?

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Very, Very basic explanation for understanding only:
The VE table is telling the computer how big the cylinder is so it knows how much fuel to put in.
The smaller the number the less fuel it will put in. (no, the numbers are NOT arbitrary, and need to be correct. That is also not the only value used to determine the size of the cylinder.)



Those values will cause the computer to remain in closed loop past what is normally the idle area down into what is normally the decel area.
(When the computer is in closed loop it is constantly adjusting the fuel mixture,
based on the O2 sensor readings, to keep the mixture the way is was set by the
programing, i.e. AFR tables, etc. The Air/Fuel ratio must be within a certain range for this to work.)

If the original numbers were lower then the 20/23 they may be attempting to stop it from attempting to adjust the mixture in that area of decel. Often times the AFR in that area is rich to stop decel popping, so you would not want the computer to try and correct it there.

You might want to ask these questions over in the Ignition/Tuner/ECM/Fuel Injection forum
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/ignit...-injection-55/
You might also include a twenty minute or so log file so they know what is going on and where.
.

 

This will take time but go in to Dynojets canned maps on the web sight. Look down the list find one with your mods or as close as you can get. Copy the tune you have now save it. Then flash then tune you found. When flash it when ask reset every thing.
Then ride see ho it fells and if codes come back. . The run some basic auto tunes runs. Just a simple pipe change is not a big deal.

 

Go to fuelmoto.com you can buy map support from them. Not sure what it costs but it's way cheaper than another dyno and how can you put a price on your bikes happiness? You'll be happy too.

 

Actually the numbers in my current map, the one where the heat issue is resolved but I am getting engine codes stating front and rear cylinder is too rich, are higher. The current Closed Loop Minimum Map Setting is 28 KPa and the Closed Loop Minimum Map Hysteresis setting is 26 KPa. To address the too rich issue, they want me to knock it down to 20 for the Minimum Map and 23 for the Minimum Map Hysteresis. Does this make sense to attempt to address the issue with the engine running too rich?

 

Not to me, but I don’t know where the problem is occurring.
First question; did you run any auto-tune sessions with the Dynojet tune?
You should have done that first thing when you received their tune.

If you mounted the PV on the bars you could set the gauges to tell you Rich/Lean, and look at your tach to see what RPM it is rich at. You could also set it to log rich/lean then look at it in Excel or similar program.

It is up to you.
You could spend a lot of time learning about EFI tuning and spend a lot of time tuning your bike, something some enjoy doing.
Or you could take it back to the tuner giving them a chance to fix it, and let him do what they were paid to do, which would give you more time to just enjoy the ride!
It is up to you. If you choose to learn more, again, post this in the tuning forum, you will get more help.
Good luck with your decision.
.

 

Even the best can make a mistake, miss a detail, and/or have a bad day......

If the tuner was "highly recommended", I would make sure his original, unchanged dyno tune is on the bike and then bring the bike back to him. Tell him your issues and see if he can fix it...

If he can't, then start looking for alternatives....

Good luck with the tune...

 

There are a couple of other factors about this guy that I did not mention that have made me skeptical of his ethics. The day he tuned my bike, after one of his guys installed the new pipes, he called me to the back and asked if my bike had ever smoked so badly. I did not witness any smoke coming from my bike but he swore that it was so bad that he had to stop tuning and open the door to the Dyno room. He then started talking about how it could be the oil pump, or the cylinder getting scored, etc... He suggested that I allow him to keep the bike so he could take the top of the engine apart and take a look and all of this work and parts was going to cost me about $3K. I immediately called a friend who is an HD master mechanic and explained what he said and he felt like it was a bunch of BS and thought this guy was trying to drum up some extra work. To this day, even while riding with his map, I have yet so see any smoke or experience any issues with the bike except for the excessive heat issue.

I did call him about the heat issue and one of the first things he mentioned was the smoke coming from the bike when he tuned it about 7 months ago. So I hope you can see why I am skeptical. I wish I trusted him because he did say he is willing to take a look at it again.

It is worth mentioning that while my friend is an HD master mechanic, he is not a Dyno guy.

 

I did not run any auto tune sessions with the Dynojet tune because all they did was review the map that was made on the Dyno and make some adjustments to the air/fuel ratios. Also, they never mentioned having to run an auto tune session.

I can easily mount my Powervision to the bars. Would you be able to tell me exactly how to set the gauges to Rich/Lean? How would I set it log rich/lean and then pull the log off of the PV? I know how to upload maps to and pull maps from the PowerVision but I am not sure how to set the gauges on have it create a log for a specific set of information like rich/lean.


I really do not want to spend a lot of time learning about tuning and messing with it. I mentioned in a previous reply that there were a couple of other things that happened to make me distrust the guy who did the tune back in February. If I end up having to have it tuned again, I will have to take it elsewhere. There are not many authorized PowerVision tuners in Northern or Southern Virginia so if anyone knows of someone they would recommend, please let me know.

I did post this issue in the tuning thread as you suggested but did not get much of a response so I am just waiting. I am sure it is not a very popular thread so I will keep checking for responses.

 

Whoa.... OK, my bad....

I should have added, "even highly recommended guys can be crooks"....

A bad dyno tuner is worse than useless, they can actually hurt a bike...

I totally understand your skepticism now.... I would agree, it's time to look for alternatives...

Of course, a competent dyno tuner is really worth the cost.... maybe try to find another good dyno guy, but an actual good one, near you...

In the absence of a good dyno tuner, I have used (up to and including Stage II mods) a PowerVision tuner, with a canned map from a competent shop (I use FuelMoto and DynoJet). I then run an Auto tune session or two (until average cell change is around 4%) to dial in the canned tune to my bike's VE tables... For a street ridden motorcycle, that can yield good results. I have had two bikes that were tuned that way, and they were and are (still have one) excellent running motorcycles...

Good luck fixing your tune...


PS- You are about the same distance from two excellent shops... Hillside Cycles (Scott Palmer), Munnsville, NY @ 495 miles and Pro Twin Performance (Kevin Baxter) in Winder, GA @ 505 miles. Both these shops have stellar reputations, and I would trust either to work on or tune my bike if I lived closer (I'm in SoCal). They would be worth the road trip...

Hell, I drove 2100 miles each way to have Jaime at FuelMoto install and tune the 124" crate engine in my bagger. I was going to install it myself, but I know of no tuner within a day or two of me, that I trusted to tune it... So I made the big road trip..!!! Road trips can be fun...