CarPlay & PackTalk Bold
#51
05-15-2020 | 10:43 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 209
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From: Dallas, Texas
I have never paired a headset with another rider and then tried using it to communicate with other riders using a CB. I am not sure that would work at all.
That wasn't his goal at all.
He simply wanted Bluetooth intercom communication while connected to the WHIM with his 20Ss.
But that doesn't work.
The priorities for the 20S, 30R, and the 50 series are the same. Phone overrides everything else (except Ambient). So if the Sena thinks there's a phone call going on, Intercom doesn't work. That was his experience and the dealership's experience when he took the two Senas to them to get them to show how intercom works while connected to the WHIM.
Why connect to the WHIM and enjoy Bluetooth simultaneously? To listen to the radio, navigation, etc. Not to use the CB.
It's really hard to discuss the technicalities via the Internet and not face-to-face. I'd like to see someone connect their Harley-branded Sena to the WHIM and have Bluetooth or Mesh intercom at the same time. The dealership gave up. Harley Customer Support gave up.
Ken
That wasn't his goal at all.
He simply wanted Bluetooth intercom communication while connected to the WHIM with his 20Ss.
But that doesn't work.
The priorities for the 20S, 30R, and the 50 series are the same. Phone overrides everything else (except Ambient). So if the Sena thinks there's a phone call going on, Intercom doesn't work. That was his experience and the dealership's experience when he took the two Senas to them to get them to show how intercom works while connected to the WHIM.
Why connect to the WHIM and enjoy Bluetooth simultaneously? To listen to the radio, navigation, etc. Not to use the CB.
It's really hard to discuss the technicalities via the Internet and not face-to-face. I'd like to see someone connect their Harley-branded Sena to the WHIM and have Bluetooth or Mesh intercom at the same time. The dealership gave up. Harley Customer Support gave up.
Ken
#52
05-15-2020 | 02:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 209
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From: Dallas, Texas
I have been in communication with Scala personnel several times over the past couple of years regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility. Coincidentally, I received a new email from them just three or four days ago.
Here's the latest text reply regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility:
Hi Ken,
Customer feedback is something we like to hear from individuals and will use the feedback we have received in the future.
Currently, while this is something being considered, there is no ETA as of yet. I will be sure to share your suggestion with the design team as they make future updates to our product line, for connectivity to not only the WHiM, but CarPlay, and various other TFTs is something that is very important to us.
Here's the latest text reply regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility:
Hi Ken,
Customer feedback is something we like to hear from individuals and will use the feedback we have received in the future.
Currently, while this is something being considered, there is no ETA as of yet. I will be sure to share your suggestion with the design team as they make future updates to our product line, for connectivity to not only the WHiM, but CarPlay, and various other TFTs is something that is very important to us.
#53
05-15-2020 | 04:20 PM
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Road Master
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Providence Forge, VA
I have been in communication with Scala personnel several times over the past couple of years regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility. Coincidentally, I received a new email from them just three or four days ago.
Here's the latest text reply regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility:
Hi Ken,
...Currently, while this is something being considered, there is no ETA as of yet.
Here's the latest text reply regarding PackTalk to WHIM compatibility:
Hi Ken,
...Currently, while this is something being considered, there is no ETA as of yet.
What exactly did you ask t one be considered?
I spoke to Trevor last week, he is the gentlemen that assured me that connecting the iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 1 and to the WHIM on channel 2 would work. After you reported back that in your testing you could still not communicate in DMC mode, I reached back out to them via email. I received a response from Stephanie that simply asked me if I remember who I spoke to last week. I replied to her email twice and included the link to this thread, but I did not hear back. I called support today to follow up and spoke with Dennis. He said he was not aware of any issues with the PackTalk and the WHIM and explained that what Trevor had suggested should have worked. He told me that Trevor is out of the office today but he, Stephanie, and Trevor are going to work on this and get back to me early next week. I will keep you posted.
I finally heard back from Sena today and they were able to answer my questions regarding the 50S. They said that the 50S suffers from the same mono sound issue as all other non H-D branded Sena devices. I asked him about pairing the Sena to the iPhone on channel 1 and to the WHIM on channel 2 and he too said that should work, including supporting mesh mode. He also said that the 50S does not allow for mesh communication with devices from other manufacturers. However, he did say that there is something in the works that will include a universal mesh mode standard. He could not provide a lot of detail or give me an ETA but he did say something is coming. I can only assume that if Sena is working on it, Cardo must be as well. This is very exciting.
#54
05-15-2020 | 04:43 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 209
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From: Dallas, Texas
What exactly did you ask t one be considered?
I spoke to Trevor last week, he is the gentlemen that assured me that connecting the iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 1 and to the WHIM on channel 2 would work. After you reported back that in your testing you could still not communicate in DMC mode, I reached back out to them via email. I received a response from Stephanie that simply asked me if I remember who I spoke to last week. I replied to her email twice and included the link to this thread, but I did not hear back. I called support today to follow up and spoke with Dennis. He said he was not aware of any issues with the PackTalk and the WHIM and explained that what Trevor had suggested should have worked. He told me that Trevor is out of the office today but he, Stephanie, and Trevor are going to work on this and get back to me early next week. I will keep you posted.
I spoke to Trevor last week, he is the gentlemen that assured me that connecting the iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 1 and to the WHIM on channel 2 would work. After you reported back that in your testing you could still not communicate in DMC mode, I reached back out to them via email. I received a response from Stephanie that simply asked me if I remember who I spoke to last week. I replied to her email twice and included the link to this thread, but I did not hear back. I called support today to follow up and spoke with Dennis. He said he was not aware of any issues with the PackTalk and the WHIM and explained that what Trevor had suggested should have worked. He told me that Trevor is out of the office today but he, Stephanie, and Trevor are going to work on this and get back to me early next week. I will keep you posted.
This was immediately after trying the latest post about pairing in a prescribed sequence to both the phone and the WHIM. I was getting frustrated because I tried for a good while, never having success. I've tried since with no joy as well. But I haven't yet downloaded the latest firmware release from earlier this week. I didn't want to cloud the issue during intensive testing that my two friends and I did a few days ago.
I may be wrong, but I don't think PackTalk is ever going to play nice with a WHIM; At least not until either the Harley Motor Company changes the WHIM firmware (not likely) or Scala lets us lower the priority of the channel to which we wish to connect the WHIM so it doesn't think that the WHIM is a telephone.
I haven't seen where anyone has reported that they tried the new prescribed sequence of pairing the Whim that you posted yet except from myself. I tried many times without success. But if others are having success, I'd sure like to hear about it. You implied that you hadn't tested this new way yet and invited others to test and let you know if it works as described.
In the meantime, I ordered a new Harley headset cable that I'll plug into the radio and extend to the tourpac for my Sena Freewire. I KNOW FOR CERTAIN that the Freewire and Packtalk play nice.
I plan to remove my WHIM and spend the $75 with the dealership to get the mic turned back on so the work-around I cited won't be needed.
Ken
Last edited by DWKen; 05-15-2020 at 05:06 PM.
#55
05-16-2020 | 07:35 AM
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Road Master
Joined: Apr 2007
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From: Providence Forge, VA
Test with two PackTalk headsets and Sena Freewire, NO WHIM INSTALLED:
Goal: Test and confirm full operation with the Harley Davidson motorcycle GTS BoomBox that has never had a WHIM installed using the Scala Rider Packtalk.
Setup: Motorcycle (the same 2019 RoadGlide) with no WHIM installed
Freewire plugged into the headset jack on console
Primary PackTalk headset paired to Freewire Channel 1 pairing
Second PackTalk headset paired to the primary PackTalk for bike-to-bike intercom (we already had both Packtalk headsets DMC paired Prior to any other pairings.
iPhone plugged into BoomBox USB cable (not Bluetooth paired). *****Why did you not pair your iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 2? Or pair your iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 1 and to the Freewire on channel 2? - You mentioned doing this as a work around. at the end of your reply. This is one of the steps I outlined in the original post I made when starting this thread.
Tests:
1. Stereo audio from the BoomBox to Primary PackTalk Headset via Freewire?
The BoomBox stereo output is heard from the primary PackTalk. *****This test works without the use of a Sena Freewire.
2. Phone calls from the PackTalk via Freewire and BoomBox , send and receive?
Phone calls were initiated and answered via the BoomBox screen. Primary PackTalk user could ear the other party and the other party could hear the Packtalk user.
*****This too works without requiring a Freewire device if you use the proper power on sequence I outlined in the start of this thread.
3. Packtalk DMC intercom between PackTalk Headsets while connected to BoomBox via Freewire?
A DMC intercom conversation between the Primary and second PackTalk headsets worked properly. If music from the BoomBox was present, Audio Multi-Tasking worked to lower the music volume when intercom conversation was in progress and restore when conversation ended as desired.
*****This too works without requiring a Freewire device if you use the proper power on sequence I outlined in the start of this thread.
4. Voice Control of the BoomBox from the Packtalk headset via the Sena Freewire
Voice control worked properly including voice dialing. (Siri Commands) Remember, no WHIM installed and Mic Off option was not programmed.
*****To be clear, you mean total voice control via Siri by pressing the voice activation button on the motorcycle, as opposed to using the built in 'Hey Siri' functionality of the headset, correct? If that is correct, what if you had paired your PackTalk to the iPhone on channel 1 and they paired the Freewire to channel 2, would 'Hey Siri' have functioned without having to press the voice activation button on the motorcycle? My guess is that both the voice activation button on the motorcycle and the built in 'Hey Siri' functionality of the headset would have worked as you mention later in your work around suggestion.
Conclusion: A PackTalk headset works properly through all functions when connected to a Harley BoomBox that has never had a WHIM installed via a Sena Freewire plugged into the microphone . A WHIM cannot do this.
Test with two PackTalk headsets via Sena Freewire, WHIM INSTALLED:
Goal: Test and confirm operation with the Harley Davidson motorcycle GTS BoomBox using the Sena Freewire. (Whim disabled, programmed with Mic option OFF) .
Setup: Motorcycle (2019 Ultra Limited) with WHIM installed but disabled and Mic option Off
Freewire plugged into the headset jack on console
Primary PackTalk headset paired to Freewire Channel 1 pairing
Second PackTalk headset paired to the primary PackTalk for bike-to-bike intercom
The PackTalk headsets were DMC paired Prior to any other pairings only because they were previously paired.
iPhone plugged into BoomBox USB cable (not Bluetooth paired). *****Why did you not pair your iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 2? Or pair your iPhone to the PackTalk on channel 1 and to the Freewire on channel 2? - You mentioned doing this as a work around. at the end of your reply. This is one of the steps I outlined in the original post I made when starting this thread.
Tests:
1. Stereo audio from the BoomBox to the primary PackTalk Headset via Freewire?
The BoomBox full stereo output is heard from the primary Sena headset.
*****This test works without the use of a Sena Freewire
2. Phone calls via Freewire and BoomBox , send and receive?
Phone calls were initiated and answered via the BoomBox screen. Primary Sena could hear the other party. HOWEVER, the other party could not hear the primary Sena user. This is probably due to the BoomBox programmed "Mic OFF".
*****If you had paired your iPhone to either channel 1 or channel 2 of he PackTalk this would work, as you outlined in your work around below. However, this is the same work around I mentioned when I started this thread and it does not require the use of a Freewire device.
3. DMC Intercom between PackTalk Headsets while connected to BoomBox via Freewire?
A DMC Bluetooth intercom conversation between the Primary and second PackTalk headset worked properly. If music from the BoomBox was present, Audio Multi-Tasking worked to lower the music volume when intercom conversation was in progress and restore when conversation ended.
*****Upon requesting your help in testing this - because the microphone option is disabled on my bike with a WHIM installed in order to get CarPlay to work, you verified in the scenario where you have your iPhone connected to the PackTalk on channel 1 and the WHIM on channel 2, DMC mode does not work (without the use of a Freewire device). Would you please elaborate on what exactly does not work in that scenario?
*****This works completely fine in the original work around I posted when I started this thread without the need of a Freewire device.
4. Voice Control of BoomBox and CarPlay?
Voice Control from the Sena headset via the Sena Freewire did not work. This is probably because the BoomBox mic option is turned OFF on this motorcycle.
*****If you had paired your iPhone to either channel 1 or channel 2 of he PackTalk this would work, as you outlined in your work around below. However, this is the same work around I mentioned when I started this thread and it does not require the use of a Freewire device.
Conclusion: A Packtalk headset works properly through all functions when connected to a Harley BoomBox with the mic option turned OFF via a Sena Freewire plugged into the microphone socket except that the user's voice would not be transmitted to the BoomBox. (see work-around below)
*****Please correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like the only additional functionality you get by adding a Sena Freewire device is use of the voice activation button on the motorcycle. If you follow the steps outlined in my original post, all of this functionality works by with needing a WHIM, Sena Freewire, or a headset jack on your motorcycle (a lot of bikes do not have a headset jack installed). To use a Sena Freewire, you would have to buy the Freewire, a headset jack (if you do not already have one as most Street Glides do not have one, including my 2019 CVO), and then pay to have the headset jack installed or take the time to install it yourself which would require other necessary parts such as a new console strip. Unless I am missing something, to have to do all of this just to be able to use the voice activation button on the motorcycle is just not worth all of this expense or effort.
*****The other very important point to make is that NONE of these steps or additional equipment is needed if you purchase an H-D branded 30K headset (only the 30K supports mesh mode).
Work-around for telephone operation on a WHIM-equipped motorcycle that has the mic option turned OFF:
When a dealership programs the BoomBox radio with a WHIM, it appears that the technician usually turns the mic option OFF. It seems to disable the motorcycle's wired microphone input under certain conditions whether the WHIM is disconnected or enabled.
The test motorcycle with a WHIM installed had the mic option turned off. This prevented voice commands and telephone voice being heard by the other party. But we discovered a work-around when testing a PackTalk headset! The work-around may also work with a Sena headset.
The phone is already connected to the BoomBox via the USB cable. This gives operational control between the two.
The phone is already connected to the Sena Freewire via Channel 1 pairing for audio
To get audio from the PackTalk to the phone call recipient, pair the phone to the PackTalk Channel 2 airing. Remember, Channel 1 is already paired to the Sena Freewire.
*****This is one of the steps I outlined in the original post I made when starting this thread.
Please see all of my comments above in BLUE. Also, I stated this above in my comments but I feel it bears repeating as it could be very costly if misunderstood.
*****Please correct me if I am wrong but it sounds like the only additional functionality you get by adding a Sena Freewire device is use of the voice activation button on the motorcycle. If you follow the steps outlined in my original post, all of this functionality works by with needing a WHIM, Sena Freewire, or a headset jack on your motorcycle (a lot of bikes do not have a headset jack installed). To use a Sena Freewire, you would have to buy the Freewire, a headset jack (if you do not already have one as most Street Glides do not have one, including my 2019 CVO), and then pay to have the headset jack installed or take the time to install it yourself which would require other necessary parts such as a new console strip. Unless I am missing something, to have to do all of this just to be able to use the voice activation button on the motorcycle is just not worth all of this expense or effort.
*****The other very important point to make is that NONE of these steps or additional equipment is needed if you purchase an H-D branded 30K headset (only the 30K supports mesh mode).
Last edited by RiderX; 05-16-2020 at 07:39 AM.
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gdhinton (08-13-2021)
#56
05-16-2020 | 08:17 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 209
Likes: 34
From: Dallas, Texas
To answer all your comments and questions:
I bought a Freewire and tested it with very positive results because:
The PackTalk did not work with the WHIM, despite using the pairing sequence you offered (or any pairing sequence, for that matter).
The key function that did not work for me or my friends was that neither DMC nor Bluetooth intercom was available when the Packtalk was connected to the WHIM.
It's is simple as that and after over a year of trying I'm done with the WHIM.
I bought a Freewire and tested it with very positive results because:
The PackTalk did not work with the WHIM, despite using the pairing sequence you offered (or any pairing sequence, for that matter).
The key function that did not work for me or my friends was that neither DMC nor Bluetooth intercom was available when the Packtalk was connected to the WHIM.
It's is simple as that and after over a year of trying I'm done with the WHIM.
#57
05-16-2020 | 10:19 AM
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Road Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,018
Likes: 301
From: Providence Forge, VA
To answer all your comments and questions:
I bought a Freewire and tested it with very positive results because:
The PackTalk did not work with the WHIM, despite using the pairing sequence you offered (or any pairing sequence, for that matter).
The key function that did not work for me or my friends was that neither DMC nor Bluetooth intercom was available when the Packtalk was connected to the WHIM.
It's is simple as that and after over a year of trying I'm done with the WHIM.
I bought a Freewire and tested it with very positive results because:
The PackTalk did not work with the WHIM, despite using the pairing sequence you offered (or any pairing sequence, for that matter).
The key function that did not work for me or my friends was that neither DMC nor Bluetooth intercom was available when the Packtalk was connected to the WHIM.
It's is simple as that and after over a year of trying I'm done with the WHIM.
My primary point is that, unless I a missing something, adding a Freewire to the equation doesn't seem to give you any additional advantage, compared to the work around I originally posted, other than allowing you to activate Siri by using the voice activation button on the motorcycle. If that is correct, it is definitely not worth the cost of buying a Freewire and possibly having to purchase and instead a headset jack on your motorcycle.
#58
05-16-2020 | 10:35 AM
Cruiser
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 209
Likes: 34
From: Dallas, Texas
No offense taken, RiderX. I sent a personal message to you. You've worked really hard to help us all.
This is a very tough, complicated subject. People have been trying to pair their non-Harley branded Bluetooth headsets to the WHIM ever since it first came out!
Leave it to the Motor Company to really screw things up. They apparently were operating under the misconception that the only reason we wanted to cut the cable was in order to operate the BoomBox; and thus created their own proprietary method of doing so.
So many people thought that FINALLY, they could connect their existing wireless headsets with Bluetooth communication to their motorcycles. AHHH, but Harley decided to screw us all and make it either not possible or difficult at best.
I'm just happy that the Freewire actually works fully, with no special sequences between the bike, the headset, the phone, etc.
If I had it to do over, knowing what I know now, I would not recommend purchasing a WHIM.
I bought the cable in order to move the Freewire to my Tourpac. I hate wires and cables visibly stringing around on my motor. The cable will allow me to get all out of sight.
Ken
This is a very tough, complicated subject. People have been trying to pair their non-Harley branded Bluetooth headsets to the WHIM ever since it first came out!
Leave it to the Motor Company to really screw things up. They apparently were operating under the misconception that the only reason we wanted to cut the cable was in order to operate the BoomBox; and thus created their own proprietary method of doing so.
So many people thought that FINALLY, they could connect their existing wireless headsets with Bluetooth communication to their motorcycles. AHHH, but Harley decided to screw us all and make it either not possible or difficult at best.
I'm just happy that the Freewire actually works fully, with no special sequences between the bike, the headset, the phone, etc.
If I had it to do over, knowing what I know now, I would not recommend purchasing a WHIM.
I bought the cable in order to move the Freewire to my Tourpac. I hate wires and cables visibly stringing around on my motor. The cable will allow me to get all out of sight.
Ken
#59
05-16-2020 | 04:36 PM
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Road Master
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,018
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From: Providence Forge, VA
H-D just dropped a new Boombox GTS system update version 21.20.17.00. The previous version was 20.19.39.00. It looks like the testing needs to begin all over again. I should point out that it is rather interesting that HD came out with a firmware update within a day or so of Cardo releasing a firmware update, version 5.6, for the PackTalk Bold. I am ever the optimist.
BoomBox GTS System Update - MY21.20.17.00
BoomBox GTS System Update - MY21.20.17.00
Last edited by RiderX; 05-16-2020 at 04:52 PM.
