Just scheduled my 5K service on my 07 RK. Asked about performance upgrades (pipes, fuel mgt., ac). Service mgr said that none of those upgrades will reduce the engine heat. Also said that just by adding the SE pipes performance will be improved, don't need ac or SERT, etc. That goes against everything I've read on this forum. Should I look for another dealer for the service?

 

Performance of your bike can be subjective - pipes alone will improve its performance somewhat, however, further steps will also have an effect. Some have been very disappointed with their cost vs performance ratio - perhaps your dealer has had some of those instances and wants to be realistic. Really, there are almost limitless mods you can do to the engine - cams, bigger bores, fuel management, head work, better valve springs, lighter pushrods, etc, etc. However, money is a factor and one that you must consider. Is it really worth $1000-2000 to gain 10-20 HP. Some will say yes, others will stay stock since when they trade or sell, they'll loose every cent. Try another dealer and see what he says - just always ask for the bottom line and what to expect.

 

They are telling the truth if they hold to the EPA regs harley has in force, you can add only slipons (the SE performance pipes for 07 only) without doing anything and get a little boost in sound and power, if you add the stage 1 air cleaner then they need do the dealer download which is also 50 state EPA legal and it will run good with better power but not much less hotter because it will still be epa legal. Or, do what people do on here is add the air cleaner and very free flowing pipes then a PCIII, fuelpak or whatever and heat will be reduced but its not close to being epa legal. Heat is due to the lean condition required to be epa compliant, other items will increase fuel into the system which lowers heat due to a richer condition.

 

Thanks for the great responses. It's funny though - the service manager says all I need is the slip ons, while the parts guy in the same dealership said I should do all three. I'm going with the SE slip ons for now and see how it performs. If it doesn't substantially improve I'll do the ac and the download later.

 

Same thing happened to me. I asked the service guy and he says I can add rush slip-ons with no other mods parts guy says I need a/c and download. I guess the parts guy wanted to sell more parts?

 

The service manager at my dealer, an old school no BS kind of guy put it to me this way. He said on a stock engine a fuel management system will do little to nothing. Adding slip-ons must be accompanied by a larger volume air cleaner an the properECM download to match the fuel MAP to the intake and exhaust changes. Performance does get a slight boost. I like the way mine runs. He also told me that since so many people want a PC III, Fuel Pak, DFO.....etc. he would be happy to make more bucks for the dealershipby just installing them when the customer wants it. But he's not that kind of a guy. He will tell you strait up what you can or cannot expect. Icould easily have been talked into a PC III, but he actually talked me out of it. "Do cams, head work, or bigger bore cylinders, then we can do something that counts with fuel management weather it be a SERT or whatever. Until then just keep your stock motor with the Stage 1 just the way it is. Butif you insist......it's your money."
I'll take his word for it.

 

Good solid advice here!

 

A problem with many, not all,"old school" Harley people is that they spent their motorcycle lives tuning carbureted bikes--I especially noticed that Mac57's service manager apparently did not mention a SERT, but did mention the PCIII and other piggyback fuel management systems. And, frankly, their learning curves stopped short of fully understanding the SERT and what a wonderful tuning tool it is. Check-out Doc1's recent polls on SERT tuning at HD dealerships for confirmation.

My EFI 88" stock '04 EG with Rinehart TD's, SE a/c, and a competentSERT tune went from a 60 hp/70 ft. lbs torquemotor to a 75 hp/80 torquemotor. A 25% increase in hp is defintely a significant difference in my book.

Would I spend the money to buy a quality fuel mangament product if I was just changing mufflers? Probably not.

But I also wouldn't wait to buy a qualityfuel management system until I did a big bore, cam swap, etc. if I wanted an intermediate, and more affordable, performance bump on my bike--and I am glad Ididn't. JMHO.

 

The SE pipes may make a slight difference in performance, but not much without other changes, and it shouldn't help with the heat at all. The EFI is dictating the A/F in closed-loop mode (idle and cruise), and at 14.7 it will be hot with whatever muffler you install. The biggest bottleneck is the AC, and changing that out is the single best bang-for-the-buck performance upgrade you can make. Of course, it requires a map change or EFI download. Your SM should know this, and I think your parts guy has the best advice. The heat will not likely dissipate much until you pull the A/F down from 14.7:1, and AFAIK you can only do that by adding SERT, PCIII with O2 eliminators, or T'max (highly adjustable wide-band closed-loop system).

The first things I install on a new bike are mufflers, AC, and EFI mod--and all at once.

 

The slip ons will do pretty much nothing at all for the heat. If you are putting them on for sound or just to change the look then they will do that. The AC will really help with the sound as it will allow a ton more air in. You will need to do something with the ECM though as it will also make it run way too lean.......