Another "Brother" down .
#21
06-27-2007, 09:08 AM
RE: Another "Brother" down .
I read a scientific study as why people don't see motorcycles. It had to do with their brain programmed to look for objects that are car sized. When the brain doesn't see something that big, it can disregard the motorcycle because of it's size. This is more prevalent in the northeast just after winter because we haven't been seeing or looking for motorcycles on the road for months. It was a very interesting study.
I have myself have started to pull into the path of bike not seeing it andonly catching myself at the last minute. When I ride I assume that the other cars do not see me and am on my guard all the time. Especially at intersections or when I see a car at a side road waiting to entire my path.
I have myself have started to pull into the path of bike not seeing it andonly catching myself at the last minute. When I ride I assume that the other cars do not see me and am on my guard all the time. Especially at intersections or when I see a car at a side road waiting to entire my path.
#22
06-27-2007, 09:36 AM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
This summer, more than ever before, I have seen numerous motorist (kids and grandpas alike)blow right through stop signs, yield signs and red lights.
Cell phones, new drivers, tired drivers, too many passengers, kids, illegal drivers, illegal immigrant drivers, very old drivers, drugs, alcohol,medical conditions,etc....all contribute to this.
Personally, I think most of it is from cell phones. There should be a Federal law banning the use of cell phones of any kind while driving - "buckle up and shut off that cell or you'llend up in a cell" should be the expression.
They are everywhere- morning, noon and night - they drive by your house everyday - they are THE PUBLIC.
Amen....I was sitting at a traffic light last Tues. About five or six cars back. When all of a sudden the bike leaps forward. I thought the clutch cable snapped. Well this lady behind me "rolled" into the back of me. When I looked into my mirror she was on the cell phone. I got off the bike (car still planted against my bumper) she leans out the window (phone still on her ear ) and ask me if I backed into her. I almost dragged her through the window. I told her politely (ya right) that if she would take the phone out of her ear she would know what happened. I checked the bike (no damage). She then asked if I was OK.(still on the phone)I was so mad that I just got back on the bike and left. I'm probably wanted for leaving the scene of an accident.
#23
06-27-2007, 11:14 AM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
been there done that. Compound fracture of the tibia/fibula on my right leg from a guy turning left in my path. "didn't see me". I am saving up to add HID lights to my Ultra and an Air Horn. When I approach intersections I always flash high beams and sound the horn once or twice to ensure that I am "seen".
#24
06-27-2007, 12:36 PM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
Alright - e-z now...for starters - its called an "accident" - not an "on-purpose". By all means, we can try to get the word out & warn cage drivers to look twice before pulling out, lane changes, etc - but ya know what? Cars pull out and hit cars far more than they pull out and hit bikes. That's a fact. And yes - the common reason is because "they didn't see" the other car(probably because they didn't bother looking of course). Hopefully your common sense will allow you to understand why fatalities are higher for bike riders in those situations...its a risk we all know & take. Motorcycles are inherently more unsafe than a car. Cars have lots of metal, seatbelts, air bags & more. No where does the universe say "Since motorcycles are less safe than cars - we shall even the playing field and not allow the same kinds of accidents & environmental hazards that happens to cars & trucks happen to motorcycles." It doesn't work that way.
We are bodies riding on engines that have to balance on 2 wheels. Not bodies surrounded by a cage on a level/smoothe riding car with 4 evenly spaced wheels...
ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. They always will. Its extremely unfortunate for those that are involved in them. About the best you can do is where a shirt or bumpersticker (on your car) that says something like "Look twice for bikes - I'd appreciate it" - we've all seen those slogans...next time I see a stack somewhere, I'm gonna take some & pass'em out to people - maybe even people who give me close calls on the road...
Murder though? I dunno. Was the driver drunk? Stoned? Committing a crime & running from the cops at the time? Ya catch my drift? Did this person & his family intend to kill this guy? I highly doubt it.
I hope & pray that I never havea car pull out into me - or pull out in front of me without allowing myself enough time to react...or have a car come slam me in the bike at slow or high speed - but know what? I know that those - and MANY other risks -exist, every day - and on every ride. My life is MY responsibility - and I will do everything in my power to keep it going.
I don't wear a helmet. I think twice about it often. Yet, where is the uproar about this guy dying & not having a helmet on? Could've very well saved his life, right? Who knows - none of us where there. None of us knows the full circumstances...it was an accident. God be with everyone involved - and I'll continue to remind people to look twice for me & all of my fellow bikers...
PS: What're the chances of starting a section for "crash/accidents" only? Honestly - I really don't like to read about people dying or wrecking if I can help it. I know I didn't have to click on thethread, especially judging by the title...but - I dunno...the less I hear about that kinda stuff, the better. I'm all for learning lessons, sure. I won't get complacent & ever let the thought about the risk I take when I ride - regardless of "reminders" such as threads about wrecks/deaths...and my prayers go out to all those who ride & have been badly injured & died too...but I don't need constant reminders & details about all that...ya know?
We are bodies riding on engines that have to balance on 2 wheels. Not bodies surrounded by a cage on a level/smoothe riding car with 4 evenly spaced wheels...
ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. They always will. Its extremely unfortunate for those that are involved in them. About the best you can do is where a shirt or bumpersticker (on your car) that says something like "Look twice for bikes - I'd appreciate it" - we've all seen those slogans...next time I see a stack somewhere, I'm gonna take some & pass'em out to people - maybe even people who give me close calls on the road...
Murder though? I dunno. Was the driver drunk? Stoned? Committing a crime & running from the cops at the time? Ya catch my drift? Did this person & his family intend to kill this guy? I highly doubt it.
I hope & pray that I never havea car pull out into me - or pull out in front of me without allowing myself enough time to react...or have a car come slam me in the bike at slow or high speed - but know what? I know that those - and MANY other risks -exist, every day - and on every ride. My life is MY responsibility - and I will do everything in my power to keep it going.
I don't wear a helmet. I think twice about it often. Yet, where is the uproar about this guy dying & not having a helmet on? Could've very well saved his life, right? Who knows - none of us where there. None of us knows the full circumstances...it was an accident. God be with everyone involved - and I'll continue to remind people to look twice for me & all of my fellow bikers...
PS: What're the chances of starting a section for "crash/accidents" only? Honestly - I really don't like to read about people dying or wrecking if I can help it. I know I didn't have to click on thethread, especially judging by the title...but - I dunno...the less I hear about that kinda stuff, the better. I'm all for learning lessons, sure. I won't get complacent & ever let the thought about the risk I take when I ride - regardless of "reminders" such as threads about wrecks/deaths...and my prayers go out to all those who ride & have been badly injured & died too...but I don't need constant reminders & details about all that...ya know?
#25
06-27-2007, 12:44 PM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
Just because it says that charges have not been filed,does not means charges will not be filed.
The S.O.P. for the Florida Highway Patrol for fatality accidents is to withhold charges until the investigation is complete.
This could take a few weeks to several months.
The S.O.P. for the Florida Highway Patrol for fatality accidents is to withhold charges until the investigation is complete.
This could take a few weeks to several months.
#26
06-27-2007, 01:25 PM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
I have been a paid firefighter now for over 34 years. I have been to ALL types of accidents - both car and bike. 99% of the time - people say "never saw them" be it a car or bike... Think about it - if they SAW them the accident most likely would NOT have happened... For those of you that find it hard to believe that someone can not see a bike or tell how fast it is going... Speed is very hard to tell esp when a bike is concerned... Try standing ona train track and look down at the train coming straight at you - can you tell how fast it is going??? And about the above statement "gee, I never new how many bikes were on the road until I started riding" Just like you buying a red car thinking you would be different - now you see red cars all the time.... same difference.
I do agree with one of the above posters above - there just may be a lot more facts we do not know. As bike riders we have to be more careful than when in a cage.. I have friends that want to start riding... My first comment to them is this "If you ride a bike the way a person drives a car" You will get hurt - meaning on a bike YOU Must be more attentive... As riders we bitch all the time about cagers and them NOT paying attention - this is NOT going to change and may get worse.. So, ride accordingly...
We had a major bike/car accident in this area a while back that involved a car turning left in front of a biker.... Ya, another stupid cagers - well, not printed in the paper was this little detail.....
Have you ever been driving/riding down a road where there are two lanes (or more) in each direction.... #1 lane being closest to center....
Southbound car is stopped in his #1 lane wanting to turn left - All of a sudden a car in the northbound #1 lane stops (no stop sign) and waves the person to make their left turn... Yep, you guessed it.... biker coming along in the northbound #2 lane (speeding or not) when all of a sudden the car and biker make contact in the #2 lane because the car could Not see the biker through the stopped car in the #1 lane - this good Samaritan that for no good reason stopped and waved the car into an accident and damn near killed the biker... So, who is at fault here???
the car that stopped and waved the car through??
The car that said "gee thanks guy - and turned left eventhough they could NOT see if there might be someone in that #2 lane
or the biker who should have been scanning and see this car stopped for some strange reason when there is NO stop sign and just maybe a car might be coming through??
I say everyone is at fault to some degree - The car was citied for unsafe turn - the car that stopped and waved them on was LONG Gone when we all got there...
The biker was the only one injured...
Moral of this story - YOU are responsible to try the best you can to scan and try and predict what may happen... drop your guard, get in a hurry, speed - ya, you may not be totally at fault - but you will be the one injured and THAT is what matters... YOUR Health...
I do agree with one of the above posters above - there just may be a lot more facts we do not know. As bike riders we have to be more careful than when in a cage.. I have friends that want to start riding... My first comment to them is this "If you ride a bike the way a person drives a car" You will get hurt - meaning on a bike YOU Must be more attentive... As riders we bitch all the time about cagers and them NOT paying attention - this is NOT going to change and may get worse.. So, ride accordingly...
We had a major bike/car accident in this area a while back that involved a car turning left in front of a biker.... Ya, another stupid cagers - well, not printed in the paper was this little detail.....
Have you ever been driving/riding down a road where there are two lanes (or more) in each direction.... #1 lane being closest to center....
Southbound car is stopped in his #1 lane wanting to turn left - All of a sudden a car in the northbound #1 lane stops (no stop sign) and waves the person to make their left turn... Yep, you guessed it.... biker coming along in the northbound #2 lane (speeding or not) when all of a sudden the car and biker make contact in the #2 lane because the car could Not see the biker through the stopped car in the #1 lane - this good Samaritan that for no good reason stopped and waved the car into an accident and damn near killed the biker... So, who is at fault here???
the car that stopped and waved the car through??
The car that said "gee thanks guy - and turned left eventhough they could NOT see if there might be someone in that #2 lane
or the biker who should have been scanning and see this car stopped for some strange reason when there is NO stop sign and just maybe a car might be coming through??
I say everyone is at fault to some degree - The car was citied for unsafe turn - the car that stopped and waved them on was LONG Gone when we all got there...
The biker was the only one injured...
Moral of this story - YOU are responsible to try the best you can to scan and try and predict what may happen... drop your guard, get in a hurry, speed - ya, you may not be totally at fault - but you will be the one injured and THAT is what matters... YOUR Health...
#27
06-27-2007, 06:08 PM
RE: Another "Brother" down .
I agree with the statement that "we're quick to judge without knowing the circumstances" and conditions, etc.
The ones that blow through intentionally are the ones that I don't care for.
As for murder, I don't think so, but I'm sure it has occured a couple of times, probably ever between bikers.
It sucks, but it's gonna happen, till everthing is automated and we have no control over our own transportation, and probably, or especially, even then.
It's too bad for those that do get hurt, and they way the people are so self-centered and only focus on what they want to achieve, and not how it affects others around them, in this day and age, will only make this happen more often.
People don't even attempt to assure that the kids they are responsible for are taught to act correctly on the road, or anywhere else for that matter. I don't like government dominance, but I do think that with the crowded cities, and maybe everywhere, that driving school, with all types of potential obstacle avoidment, should be a required class. I don't mean pass them cause they showed up. I mean earn the right to drive and ride in public. I see so many lame *** idiots here in Phoenix, that think they are on a race way, that wouldn't have driven that way 3 years ago, but think that is the normal way to drive nowadays. I drive and ride fast on freeways, but then I've been driving and riding for 30 years and better. I used to be the guy driving too fast, now I get passed and am kinda freaked out by the way these folks think it's okay to ride your *** or cut the pass close, and do it with absolutely no signals. As I said ealier, I am not a proponent of too much government control, but I do think they need to regulate use of signals a bit more, at least here in Phoenix. I hate the thought of it but...too many people that think nobody else counts, and they need to be brought back down to earth.
Example of circumstances and law enforcement
I also don't have much faith in many, I said many, not all, law enforcement personel. I had a cop accuse me of going through a red light last week, and I know damn well it wasn't red when I went into the intersection. He could have checked the lights, but didn't have time I suppose. I didn't say that he was wrong in saying he was looking at a green light at the crossing streets lights, It may have been green, but I didn't see a red light when I went into, nor immediately after entering the intersection, and I was looking cause I saw it turn yellow too soon for me to stop outside of the intersection and I wasn't speeding. BTW other cars went through at the same time, but I got pulled over.
The ones that blow through intentionally are the ones that I don't care for.
As for murder, I don't think so, but I'm sure it has occured a couple of times, probably ever between bikers.
It sucks, but it's gonna happen, till everthing is automated and we have no control over our own transportation, and probably, or especially, even then.
It's too bad for those that do get hurt, and they way the people are so self-centered and only focus on what they want to achieve, and not how it affects others around them, in this day and age, will only make this happen more often.
People don't even attempt to assure that the kids they are responsible for are taught to act correctly on the road, or anywhere else for that matter. I don't like government dominance, but I do think that with the crowded cities, and maybe everywhere, that driving school, with all types of potential obstacle avoidment, should be a required class. I don't mean pass them cause they showed up. I mean earn the right to drive and ride in public. I see so many lame *** idiots here in Phoenix, that think they are on a race way, that wouldn't have driven that way 3 years ago, but think that is the normal way to drive nowadays. I drive and ride fast on freeways, but then I've been driving and riding for 30 years and better. I used to be the guy driving too fast, now I get passed and am kinda freaked out by the way these folks think it's okay to ride your *** or cut the pass close, and do it with absolutely no signals. As I said ealier, I am not a proponent of too much government control, but I do think they need to regulate use of signals a bit more, at least here in Phoenix. I hate the thought of it but...too many people that think nobody else counts, and they need to be brought back down to earth.
Example of circumstances and law enforcement
I also don't have much faith in many, I said many, not all, law enforcement personel. I had a cop accuse me of going through a red light last week, and I know damn well it wasn't red when I went into the intersection. He could have checked the lights, but didn't have time I suppose. I didn't say that he was wrong in saying he was looking at a green light at the crossing streets lights, It may have been green, but I didn't see a red light when I went into, nor immediately after entering the intersection, and I was looking cause I saw it turn yellow too soon for me to stop outside of the intersection and I wasn't speeding. BTW other cars went through at the same time, but I got pulled over.
#28
06-27-2007, 06:58 PM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
I've noticed over the last few years as a runner that more and more people are not even stopping at stop signs they roll through most of the time not even looking left or right! and now adays there talking on a phone. Thereare no concequences for these type of drivers in todays society their more worried about Paris Hilton then some guy getting run over by some cager.It's a Stopnot a roll through sign! Look twice save a life!!!
#29
06-27-2007, 07:40 PM
RE: Another "Brother" down .
ORIGINAL: sknyfats
Alright - e-z now...for starters - its called an "accident" - not an "on-purpose". By all means, we can try to get the word out & warn cage drivers to look twice before pulling out, lane changes, etc - but ya know what? Cars pull out and hit cars far more than they pull out and hit bikes. That's a fact. And yes - the common reason is because "they didn't see" the other car(probably because they didn't bother looking of course). Hopefully your common sense will allow you to understand why fatalities are higher for bike riders in those situations...its a risk we all know & take. Motorcycles are inherently more unsafe than a car. Cars have lots of metal, seatbelts, air bags & more. No where does the universe say "Since motorcycles are less safe than cars - we shall even the playing field and not allow the same kinds of accidents & environmental hazards that happens to cars & trucks happen to motorcycles." It doesn't work that way.
We are bodies riding on engines that have to balance on 2 wheels. Not bodies surrounded by a cage on a level/smoothe riding car with 4 evenly spaced wheels...
ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. They always will. Its extremely unfortunate for those that are involved in them. About the best you can do is where a shirt or bumpersticker (on your car) that says something like "Look twice for bikes - I'd appreciate it" - we've all seen those slogans...next time I see a stack somewhere, I'm gonna take some & pass'em out to people - maybe even people who give me close calls on the road...
Murder though? I dunno. Was the driver drunk? Stoned? Committing a crime & running from the cops at the time? Ya catch my drift? Did this person & his family intend to kill this guy? I highly doubt it.
I hope & pray that I never havea car pull out into me - or pull out in front of me without allowing myself enough time to react...or have a car come slam me in the bike at slow or high speed - but know what? I know that those - and MANY other risks -exist, every day - and on every ride. My life is MY responsibility - and I will do everything in my power to keep it going.
I don't wear a helmet. I think twice about it often. Yet, where is the uproar about this guy dying & not having a helmet on? Could've very well saved his life, right? Who knows - none of us where there. None of us knows the full circumstances...it was an accident. God be with everyone involved - and I'll continue to remind people to look twice for me & all of my fellow bikers...
PS: What're the chances of starting a section for "crash/accidents" only? Honestly - I really don't like to read about people dying or wrecking if I can help it. I know I didn't have to click on thethread, especially judging by the title...but - I dunno...the less I hear about that kinda stuff, the better. I'm all for learning lessons, sure. I won't get complacent & ever let the thought about the risk I take when I ride - regardless of "reminders" such as threads about wrecks/deaths...and my prayers go out to all those who ride & have been badly injured & died too...but I don't need constant reminders & details about all that...ya know?
Alright - e-z now...for starters - its called an "accident" - not an "on-purpose". By all means, we can try to get the word out & warn cage drivers to look twice before pulling out, lane changes, etc - but ya know what? Cars pull out and hit cars far more than they pull out and hit bikes. That's a fact. And yes - the common reason is because "they didn't see" the other car(probably because they didn't bother looking of course). Hopefully your common sense will allow you to understand why fatalities are higher for bike riders in those situations...its a risk we all know & take. Motorcycles are inherently more unsafe than a car. Cars have lots of metal, seatbelts, air bags & more. No where does the universe say "Since motorcycles are less safe than cars - we shall even the playing field and not allow the same kinds of accidents & environmental hazards that happens to cars & trucks happen to motorcycles." It doesn't work that way.
We are bodies riding on engines that have to balance on 2 wheels. Not bodies surrounded by a cage on a level/smoothe riding car with 4 evenly spaced wheels...
ACCIDENTS HAPPEN. They always will. Its extremely unfortunate for those that are involved in them. About the best you can do is where a shirt or bumpersticker (on your car) that says something like "Look twice for bikes - I'd appreciate it" - we've all seen those slogans...next time I see a stack somewhere, I'm gonna take some & pass'em out to people - maybe even people who give me close calls on the road...
Murder though? I dunno. Was the driver drunk? Stoned? Committing a crime & running from the cops at the time? Ya catch my drift? Did this person & his family intend to kill this guy? I highly doubt it.
I hope & pray that I never havea car pull out into me - or pull out in front of me without allowing myself enough time to react...or have a car come slam me in the bike at slow or high speed - but know what? I know that those - and MANY other risks -exist, every day - and on every ride. My life is MY responsibility - and I will do everything in my power to keep it going.
I don't wear a helmet. I think twice about it often. Yet, where is the uproar about this guy dying & not having a helmet on? Could've very well saved his life, right? Who knows - none of us where there. None of us knows the full circumstances...it was an accident. God be with everyone involved - and I'll continue to remind people to look twice for me & all of my fellow bikers...
PS: What're the chances of starting a section for "crash/accidents" only? Honestly - I really don't like to read about people dying or wrecking if I can help it. I know I didn't have to click on thethread, especially judging by the title...but - I dunno...the less I hear about that kinda stuff, the better. I'm all for learning lessons, sure. I won't get complacent & ever let the thought about the risk I take when I ride - regardless of "reminders" such as threads about wrecks/deaths...and my prayers go out to all those who ride & have been badly injured & died too...but I don't need constant reminders & details about all that...ya know?
#30
06-27-2007, 08:07 PM
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RE: Another "Brother" down .
Fishpart,
I live at a mildly traveledintersection where the less popular street has YIELD signs (maybe a car comes by every couple minutes).
Looking out my living room window, I see what drivers do every day and night.
OVER 50% IGNORE THE YIELD SIGN AND BLAST RIGHT THROUGH FULL SPEED - INCLUDING THOSE ON HARLEYS.
A year ago there was a collision/rollover here and I (bravely/instinctively) ended up pulling the trapped guy out of his upside down SUV as gas was dripping all over. Took me a couple minutes to getthe door open. Talk about an adrenaline rush. I felt like Superman. This oriental old lady, who couldn't see over the steering wheel, just T-boned this guy at 40 mph. Both vehicles totaled. She mumbled something in Hmong and proceeded to walk home before the cops showed up. UFB.I said "lady where TF are you going???" - apparently she spoke/understood NO ENGLISH - but yet had a license to drive. WTF???
I filed a complaint, verbal and written with the City, to have the signs changed to STOP. They did a five minute survey and said it will stay the same. "Meets" government traffic guidelines. I petitioned them again after another year of close calls and got the same freakin' response. No change.
This last time I told them in writing (including the Mayor and Police Chief) that someone is going to DIE here sooner or later. Probably innocent kids on the sidewalk when it happens. Pisses me off -dumb asses that just won't listen.
Moral of this story - NOBODY GIVES A SH$T. NOBODY. YOU GOTTA LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER ONE EVERYWHERE.
I'll post again, after THE accident. Dave H. Appleton, WI Wednesday June 27, 2007 6pm central
I live at a mildly traveledintersection where the less popular street has YIELD signs (maybe a car comes by every couple minutes).
Looking out my living room window, I see what drivers do every day and night.
OVER 50% IGNORE THE YIELD SIGN AND BLAST RIGHT THROUGH FULL SPEED - INCLUDING THOSE ON HARLEYS.
A year ago there was a collision/rollover here and I (bravely/instinctively) ended up pulling the trapped guy out of his upside down SUV as gas was dripping all over. Took me a couple minutes to getthe door open. Talk about an adrenaline rush. I felt like Superman. This oriental old lady, who couldn't see over the steering wheel, just T-boned this guy at 40 mph. Both vehicles totaled. She mumbled something in Hmong and proceeded to walk home before the cops showed up. UFB.I said "lady where TF are you going???" - apparently she spoke/understood NO ENGLISH - but yet had a license to drive. WTF???
I filed a complaint, verbal and written with the City, to have the signs changed to STOP. They did a five minute survey and said it will stay the same. "Meets" government traffic guidelines. I petitioned them again after another year of close calls and got the same freakin' response. No change.
This last time I told them in writing (including the Mayor and Police Chief) that someone is going to DIE here sooner or later. Probably innocent kids on the sidewalk when it happens. Pisses me off -dumb asses that just won't listen.
Moral of this story - NOBODY GIVES A SH$T. NOBODY. YOU GOTTA LOOK OUT FOR NUMBER ONE EVERYWHERE.
I'll post again, after THE accident. Dave H. Appleton, WI Wednesday June 27, 2007 6pm central