Ok, I know there are other topics out there in this issue and it's been beaten to death, but none of what I see provides a definite troubleshooting solution for my starter grind. Feels like I'm throwing darts at a board.
Most say compensator, but a new baker is 600 bones so starting from the bottom up. Battery was very old, so that was the first suspect, no joy. Now I have the starter out and scratching my head on what to do next...

Here are the facts:
1. It started out shortly after installing V&H true dual headers - the rear exhaust routes very close to the starter.
2. Used to be strictly a warm start issue but has developed into a 50/50 cold start issue. Sometime it starts fine, then next try it grinds.
3. No detectable shifting or surge problems. Shifts smooth, but neutral cant be tricky to find...was pretty much that way from the day I bout it new.
4. Bike has 33k miles on it.
5. Battery was just replaced with a Duracell AGM 400 CCA. Believe it or not it was the original battery (don't laugh), 9 years old and still tested good. Starter still grinds.
6. Removed starter and opened it up. Starter Clutch grabs as it should, (using only hand force). No obvious issues except a little dirty in there.

I guess my next step is to just replace the starter clutch with the all ***** model and hope for the best.

If that fails, I guess we open up the primary again and do the compensator.
That opens up another bunch of mystery choices...which compensator to use.
My options are:
1. Baker for $600 and PITA to install. Have to grind or remove back primary cover?
2. SE but don't like that plastic oil diverter cobble.
3. BDL, heard mixed reviews but I like it's ease of installation and simplicity.
4. Replace with original...yeah only to fail again down the road...
5. Any other suggestions I am missing?

Am I on the right path?

Oh, and that little ball bearing that squirted out of the starter clutch assembly...where does it go? I am assuming at the end of the solenoid spring.
(I can hear the "go get a service manual" comments already...yeah, I know)

Cheers
Herb

 

This sounds exactly like the issues I was having on my 08 Street Glide. I maybe wrong on this but here's what I think the problem is.

Mine would do the same thing, it would start fine the first time, ride it a little and go start it again and bam, grinding! I think it's a combination of a few things. First it's the original compensator (mainly the spring pak) in conjunction with the auto tensioner, and then the compression built up.

I recently replaced my second original compensator with the Baker and their manual tensioner and it cured 98% of the issue. I'm going to install S&S easy start cams soon and that should fix the problem completely.

I think the original compensator had a spring pak that couldn't handle the force put on it coupled with the auto tensioner that ratcheted up every time it felt any slack, and put just way too much stress on that area. Put that together with the motor stopping on a compression stroke, and a starter clutch that's been beat up over time a little by this, and you have the recipe for the situation you're in.

Like I said, this is just my opinion, but so far every step I've taken to correct it so far has been working.

 

What does the ring gear look like? Any missing or badly worn teeth? How about the pinion gear? If all is ok there the starter is usually at fault. The solenoid might be binding up or the clutch needs replacing.

 

I guess the big mystery for me is what exactly is causing the grinding sound?

With the primary cover off, I can see the starter gear engage the clutch basket fully. The sound I hear is like gear teeth not meshing completely.
I first assumed a weak solenoid and the pinion just spinning against the clutch basket gear...but that's not it.

From what I can see, there's nothing inside the starter that should be making that noise, but I'm not sure what's inside that starter clutch that could make that "ratchety" sound.
With that noise, you'd think the starter clutch shaft would be galled up, but it looks very polished smooth, possibly from slipping?...or maybe there's some type of ratchet mechanism inside the clutch wheel that is slipping making that noise. (any starter clutch experts care to explain it's exact operation and how that sound could be produced?)

If the problem is not solved by the starter clutch replacement, then I have to move on to the compensator, which by all accounts so far seems to be inevitable because the OEM compensator (and starter clutch) is junk by design.
If anyone knows of any alternatives to the comps I mentioned above...I'm all ears.

I'll likely replace the starter clutch with the all ***** anyway since it's already open and reportedly another weak design.

This poor design and quality (starter clutch and compensator) really chaps my ***, but welcome to HD.

I'm guessing the right solution to fixing any start grind issue is to just replace the battery AND starter clutch AND compensator. $$$$$

At least my 2007 Goldwing is running like a champ only requiring fluids.

Still wonder where that noise is really coming from.

 

The starter clutch is a "Sprag" clutch. It has fat needle bearings that run on ramps. When the starter spins, the needle bearings run up the ramps and jam against the outer housing making the clutch drive the pinion. When the motor catches, the pinion spins faster than the starter and the needle bearings fall away from the high points on the ramps and the clutch releases. When either the needle bearings, the housing, or the ramps become worn, the clutch will chatter and make that grinding noise.
Do you get an occasional (or every time) loud bang when hitting the starter button? That is the weak compensator banging against its travel limit. That is usually what beats the factory starter clutch to a premature death, sounding just as you have described. I installed the Allballs starter drive and the SE compensator years ago. Together they are working very well and have accumulated about 72,000 miles since installed. To the best of my knowledge, any new compensator will require the updated rotor so there is no way around that.

 

Thanks btsom!

That was a very good reply and answers my question about the clutch being able to chatter like it does.

I will say I have never heard any bang when starting. Shifting is always smooth with only the occasional clunk when dropping it into first, but it always did that.
All other 5 gear transitions are smooth and nothing notable once the bike is started.

Gonna order the all ***** clutch right now and just get er done. If problems persist or exhibit any signs of the comp being bad, then I'll proceed with that. Either way it and a new chain tensioner is going on my Christmas list so momma can buy it for me...if she wants to keep riding that is... lol

I'd love to go to the moco and see how far I can shove that starter clutch up their tailpipe. junk.

 

I had the very same issue with my 06 and it was the starter clutch. Replaced it with an All ***** as well and it took care of it. While you have the starter open clean all the contacts in the solenoid. You will most likely find some of the contacts burnt.

 

Mine was grinding, banging, sounded like a kickback at times, got progressively worse. Replaced my starter clutch couple months back. Not a ton of money, Fairly easy job, taking my time about an hour. So worse case your out $100.00 and 1 hour.

 

Just wanted to follow up and close this topic:

I picked up an All ***** 07-17TC starter clutch and the problem is completely fixed. It was NOT the compensator. The bike starts solid again warm or cold and there is no bang or clunking in the primary. Shifting is smooth as silk with no surging. Very happy once again.

Oh, the only issue I ran into was very stupid on my part. I did not realize that they had already included a ball bearing packed in grease into the clutch, so, I dropped my old ball in there and reassembled. Needless to say, they pinion was sticking out the diameter of the extra ball. Scratched my head on that one for a bit then took it apart and removed the extra. LOL

 

so this thread is of interest to me.

I own a 2008 Ultra Classic (stock). Only has 15k miles on it (picked it up used)

I just installed the SE Comp last weekend as it seemed to be failing last summer, and now I have this starter grind or primary chain slap thing happening only occasionally but ONLY WHEN THE BIKE IS HOT???

Issue can't be the new compensator....trying to find where/how to install a new starter clutch. I do not see 'starter clutch' in my 2008 manual anywhere.

Does one just pull the starter and pop a new starter clutch into it?

got a link to the preferred replacement?

have read the service bulletin on the starter bolt torque....odd that my manual has the correct torque #'s in it and the bolts are torqued fine (just checked)

I could only reach the starter bolts w/ long ball allans, is that the way others are doing it?