Not a good choice.
#71
06-10-2007, 01:48 AM
RE: Not a good choice.
Great post SMT, UI recently traded an '05 Ultra for an '07 EG Classic. My type of riding ranges from twisty backroads to 1000+ mile days on the super slab. This bike can do it all. I don't understand these folks who say 6th gear is useless (unless you live in some commie state with a 65 mph speed limit, in that case MOVE!). Yeah it runs hot, but I blame that on the EPA and the California CARB board. H-D has their hands tied, but has still delivered us a nice machine. And if you want to upgrade for more power, it's still fairly easy to do.
My wife rides an '05 Softail Deluxe. She's an Iron Butt rider too. Her '05 Softail is all stock and is a far hotter ride than my '07 FLHTC, of course a lot of that has to do with sitting on a hot oil tank on the Softail.
I also think as the technology in these '07 bikes matures the aftermarket will provide better and better "self adjusting" closed loop EFI management systems.
My wife rides an '05 Softail Deluxe. She's an Iron Butt rider too. Her '05 Softail is all stock and is a far hotter ride than my '07 FLHTC, of course a lot of that has to do with sitting on a hot oil tank on the Softail.
I also think as the technology in these '07 bikes matures the aftermarket will provide better and better "self adjusting" closed loop EFI management systems.
#72
06-10-2007, 09:53 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
RE: Not a good choice.
Victory is more like a BMW?? Hummm Roadstar more like a HD?
Blasphemy!!!
lp
Blasphemy!!!
lp
ORIGINAL: Madav8tr
Well the only other thing that distinguishes the Victory motor from a Harley is the fact that it isn't a pushrod engine. Might as well compare it to a BMW the 2 designs are so far apart. The only other engine that is similar to the Harley power plant is the one found in the Roadstars. They run a bit cooler, at least my Warrior does, and make ample power. Besides, the Vicotry engine is butt ugly
Well the only other thing that distinguishes the Victory motor from a Harley is the fact that it isn't a pushrod engine. Might as well compare it to a BMW the 2 designs are so far apart. The only other engine that is similar to the Harley power plant is the one found in the Roadstars. They run a bit cooler, at least my Warrior does, and make ample power. Besides, the Vicotry engine is butt ugly
#73
06-10-2007, 01:23 PM
RE: Not a good choice.
Pawnbroker,
I agree most riders upgrade their bikes but from what I've gathered, it's for other reasons other than correcting designs flaws in stock trim. In regards to transmission noise, I don't think anyone that purchases any motorized product should be subjected to tranmission noise. If the transmission in my car is clunking I bring it back to the dealer. I don't keep driving it and say it's ok. Maybe if it was an automobile desgined by HD I suppose. My point is, plunking down 20K+ and having to accept noises with the constant thought that something may break at anytime, isn't right. As others have posted, for the price HD demands for these bikes in stock form should have 100/100 numbers and at a minumum be mechanically correct. Other manufacturers have their share of problems as well but I always believe you get what you pay for. In this case, a 20k+ bike should perform as a premium motorcycle.
When I compare prices on HD's website and what the dealers quotes are, I find a 2-3k difference. That's what I mean by inflated MSRP.
Thanks for the post!
Lou70
I agree most riders upgrade their bikes but from what I've gathered, it's for other reasons other than correcting designs flaws in stock trim. In regards to transmission noise, I don't think anyone that purchases any motorized product should be subjected to tranmission noise. If the transmission in my car is clunking I bring it back to the dealer. I don't keep driving it and say it's ok. Maybe if it was an automobile desgined by HD I suppose. My point is, plunking down 20K+ and having to accept noises with the constant thought that something may break at anytime, isn't right. As others have posted, for the price HD demands for these bikes in stock form should have 100/100 numbers and at a minumum be mechanically correct. Other manufacturers have their share of problems as well but I always believe you get what you pay for. In this case, a 20k+ bike should perform as a premium motorcycle.
When I compare prices on HD's website and what the dealers quotes are, I find a 2-3k difference. That's what I mean by inflated MSRP.
Thanks for the post!
Lou70
ORIGINAL: The Pawnbroker
Lou70,
Like Madav8tr said. No matter what year you were to buy including years ago, most people are going to do most of the upgrades anyway. In the "old" days, you would change the exhaust for better sound and that would mean re-jetting the carb. Yes, re-jetting was a fair bit cheaper than a tuner. But the point is, almost every single HD owner will do these upgrades anyway even without the heat issue. As for the trans, I think I have one that is supposedly loud, but I don't mind at all. It just means that it is one tough sob. It has gotten a lot quieter now that I have 1600 miles on her. Also, don't let the whole summer go by without riding. That alone is worth a small fortune to me. I don't know what you mean by inflated MSRP. As far as I know, dealers are all pretty much selling at or a hair off MSRP. No one around here could possibly get away with anything over MSRP.
Lou70,
Like Madav8tr said. No matter what year you were to buy including years ago, most people are going to do most of the upgrades anyway. In the "old" days, you would change the exhaust for better sound and that would mean re-jetting the carb. Yes, re-jetting was a fair bit cheaper than a tuner. But the point is, almost every single HD owner will do these upgrades anyway even without the heat issue. As for the trans, I think I have one that is supposedly loud, but I don't mind at all. It just means that it is one tough sob. It has gotten a lot quieter now that I have 1600 miles on her. Also, don't let the whole summer go by without riding. That alone is worth a small fortune to me. I don't know what you mean by inflated MSRP. As far as I know, dealers are all pretty much selling at or a hair off MSRP. No one around here could possibly get away with anything over MSRP.
#74
06-10-2007, 01:27 PM
RE: Not a good choice.
Exactly!
If other manufacturers like Victory, etc.. can product an EPA approve bike with little no heat issues, why can't HD?
I love Harley's but these type of things pull at my nerves.
Lou70
[/quote]
If other manufacturers like Victory, etc.. can product an EPA approve bike with little no heat issues, why can't HD?
I love Harley's but these type of things pull at my nerves.
Lou70
ORIGINAL: lp
That still don't make it right.... How come HD didn't put bigger cooling fins on the bike? How about a factory installed oil cooler? Something...
I think what you are not getting is people today are used to getting real quality for stuff they pay a premium for.
Say like that 100 Inch Victory engine and 6 speed that puts out no heat, is quicker, smoother and abides by the same EPA that HD does.
But don't take my word for it, just look at any bike mag that did a comparison on a Victory vs HD. Although the HD is a better bike in many many ways.. no one can deny the Victory power train.
So there is proof that an American V twin manufacturer can abide by EPA regs and still put out a smooth power house that will not cook your legs or whine in 5th, or clatter every time the bike gets hot.
They used something called mechanical engineering...amazing huh?
So... what is it that I'm not getting? (No offense SMT.. just playing devils advocate
)
BTW.. my 07 is great. But I understand why people are complaining.
lp
That still don't make it right.... How come HD didn't put bigger cooling fins on the bike? How about a factory installed oil cooler? Something...
I think what you are not getting is people today are used to getting real quality for stuff they pay a premium for.
Say like that 100 Inch Victory engine and 6 speed that puts out no heat, is quicker, smoother and abides by the same EPA that HD does.
But don't take my word for it, just look at any bike mag that did a comparison on a Victory vs HD. Although the HD is a better bike in many many ways.. no one can deny the Victory power train.
So there is proof that an American V twin manufacturer can abide by EPA regs and still put out a smooth power house that will not cook your legs or whine in 5th, or clatter every time the bike gets hot.
They used something called mechanical engineering...amazing huh?
So... what is it that I'm not getting? (No offense SMT.. just playing devils advocate
)BTW.. my 07 is great. But I understand why people are complaining.
lp
ORIGINAL: SMT
There is no heat ISSUE...don't you guys get it? To make an air cooled bike that meets the feds regs...it's gonna be lean and you will have to make mods to make it cool again. FN Harley can't do it for you because their hands are tied by the feds.
No manufacturer can make a large displacement air cooled engine in this day and age with out it running hot because it's set so lean.
If VW came back with it's air cooled boxer engine it would melt down in a heart beat if it had to meet todays EPA regs.
There is no heat ISSUE...don't you guys get it? To make an air cooled bike that meets the feds regs...it's gonna be lean and you will have to make mods to make it cool again. FN Harley can't do it for you because their hands are tied by the feds.
No manufacturer can make a large displacement air cooled engine in this day and age with out it running hot because it's set so lean.
If VW came back with it's air cooled boxer engine it would melt down in a heart beat if it had to meet todays EPA regs.
#76
06-10-2007, 09:32 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
RE: Not a good choice.
Oh yeah... pretty nice. Other than the Metric like hand controls, fit and finish,and the whine of the gear driven cams, its a nice bike(s).
Much better than a Warrior... Been there done that.
The Victory 100 V TWIN engine is NOT like the BMW boxer engine BTW..
I own a RS1100 and other than the vibration and same number of pistons etc... it's about completely different (as expected)than a V-Twin.
The subject was heat BTW.. and the boxer engine does not have both cylinders under your Nuts. So I guess I'm not getting your point..something about pushrods??? wierd.
But if your point was to Point-Out yet ANOTHER manufacturer that makes air cooled engines and does not require you to dump 800 bucks to make the engine cooler..then you did a good job!
lp
Much better than a Warrior... Been there done that.
The Victory 100 V TWIN engine is NOT like the BMW boxer engine BTW..
I own a RS1100 and other than the vibration and same number of pistons etc... it's about completely different (as expected)than a V-Twin.
The subject was heat BTW.. and the boxer engine does not have both cylinders under your Nuts. So I guess I'm not getting your point..something about pushrods??? wierd.
But if your point was to Point-Out yet ANOTHER manufacturer that makes air cooled engines and does not require you to dump 800 bucks to make the engine cooler..then you did a good job!
lp
ORIGINAL: Madav8tr
Blasphemy it may be but it's true..... Have you ridden a Victory?
Victory is more like a BMW?? Hummm Roadstar more like a HD?
Blasphemy!!!
Blasphemy!!!
#77
06-10-2007, 11:13 PM
RE: Not a good choice.
Much better than a Warrior... Been there done that.
. I test rode a Hammer a few weeks before deciding on the Warrior and the Hammer was a decent little bike but it was just that, decent. As for the comparison between the BMW and the Victory it was stupid, about as stupid as comparing the Victory engine to a Harley. The only similarities they share is the general configuration. If the Vistory line of motorcycles is so appealing to you, why didn't you buy one instead of the Harley? Because it isn't a Harley regardless of how hard it tries?
#78
06-10-2007, 11:33 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
RE: Not a good choice.
Oh trust me.. I really think the Victory is better than the Warrior. But if you don't believe me...just ask me.
Why didn't I buy a Victory? Cause hoss I was not in the market to BUY a new bike. I have more than a few already. More than on that little list you got under your signature even.
How do I know I like the Victory over the Warrior? I ride all those bikes at bike week(s). Which is a great way to compare...for da cheep even. You can even form an opinon on one without even Owning it!!! Go figure?!
And for the record I only compared the Victory to the HD because they are only like 4 Cubes in difference, American Made (per se), V-Twins, with six speeds...
Call me crazy but I think thats pretty much a fair comparison. Is there another American made V-Twin Ishould compare it to?
And you go throw in the BMW.. which you obviously know nothing about, but spoke about it like you were some engineer or something... wierd.
Enjoy your warrior. They look pretty cool. Only thing...Bet you like that Killer HUGE Pipe that is on the warrior? You could ship illegals over the border in it...
Whew! Thats A LOT of sarcasm. So now that I've killed any chance you and I will ever be friends... I bid you good night!
Have a good one!
lp
Why didn't I buy a Victory? Cause hoss I was not in the market to BUY a new bike. I have more than a few already. More than on that little list you got under your signature even.
How do I know I like the Victory over the Warrior? I ride all those bikes at bike week(s). Which is a great way to compare...for da cheep even. You can even form an opinon on one without even Owning it!!! Go figure?!
And for the record I only compared the Victory to the HD because they are only like 4 Cubes in difference, American Made (per se), V-Twins, with six speeds...
Call me crazy but I think thats pretty much a fair comparison. Is there another American made V-Twin Ishould compare it to?
And you go throw in the BMW.. which you obviously know nothing about, but spoke about it like you were some engineer or something... wierd.
Enjoy your warrior. They look pretty cool. Only thing...Bet you like that Killer HUGE Pipe that is on the warrior? You could ship illegals over the border in it...
Whew! Thats A LOT of sarcasm. So now that I've killed any chance you and I will ever be friends... I bid you good night!
Have a good one!
lp
ORIGINAL: Madav8tr
Riiiggghhtt, sure you have. Funny especially since the Warrior makes more HP and torque. Then add in the fact that a Warrior is lighter, handles better and has much better brakes and it's no wonder you came up with the opinion the Victory is better . I test rode a Hammer a few weeks before deciding on the Warrior and the Hammer was a decent little bike but it was just that, decent. As for the comparison between the BMW and the Victory it was stupid, about as stupid as comparing the Victory engine to a Harley. The only similarities they share is the general configuration. If the Vistory line of motorcycles is so appealing to you, why didn't you buy one instead of the Harley? Because it isn't a Harley regardless of how hard it tries?
Much better than a Warrior... Been there done that.
. I test rode a Hammer a few weeks before deciding on the Warrior and the Hammer was a decent little bike but it was just that, decent. As for the comparison between the BMW and the Victory it was stupid, about as stupid as comparing the Victory engine to a Harley. The only similarities they share is the general configuration. If the Vistory line of motorcycles is so appealing to you, why didn't you buy one instead of the Harley? Because it isn't a Harley regardless of how hard it tries?
#79
06-11-2007, 12:12 AM
RE: Not a good choice.
Enjoy your warrior
They look pretty cool
Bet you like that Killer HUGE Pipe that is on the warrior?
And you go throw in the BMW.. which you obviously know nothing about, but spoke about it like you were some engineer or something... wierd.
#80
06-11-2007, 12:19 AM
Road Captain
RE: Not a good choice.
Lou,
As far as the transmission noise being indicative of an impending failure, I think the opposite is true. I have learned that the noise is because the gear is cut different to be stronger. My dealer is a high volume dealer. I talked to the service manager the other day and he told me they haven't had a single transmission failure on an '07. I haven't heard of a single one on this board either. Now as for the pricing. I have not heard of a dealer asking above MSRP. That would simply be laughable here in Maryland. I have 5 dealerships within a 40 minute ride of my house. All have a good stock. They sell right at MSRP or a few hundred under. I think if you went into the dealership in your area, you would find them more than happy to cut a deal.
Dave.
As far as the transmission noise being indicative of an impending failure, I think the opposite is true. I have learned that the noise is because the gear is cut different to be stronger. My dealer is a high volume dealer. I talked to the service manager the other day and he told me they haven't had a single transmission failure on an '07. I haven't heard of a single one on this board either. Now as for the pricing. I have not heard of a dealer asking above MSRP. That would simply be laughable here in Maryland. I have 5 dealerships within a 40 minute ride of my house. All have a good stock. They sell right at MSRP or a few hundred under. I think if you went into the dealership in your area, you would find them more than happy to cut a deal.
Dave.