HD Super Tuners issue
#11
#12
#14
Its a computer. Very easy to make it difficult to break in to. But easy or difficult is not really the point. We are moving to an era where it is illegal to do this. Individual people may find ways to get in to modify, (like jailbreaking your phone), but companies will not sell products that are illegal, so eventually none will be offered by commercial vendors who have an incentive to make their products easy, etc.
So those of us who modify our bikes will become like people who jailbreak their phones
So those of us who modify our bikes will become like people who jailbreak their phones
#15
How is a Ford ECU locked down? You can get programmers for most of their current product line. As a matter of fact, you can for almost any vehicle that has enough demand for a performance tuner. Some are 50 state legal, and some are not. But the fact they are locked isn't true unless I missed your point.
#16
The MoCo caved into the EPA. Even though the EPA has law enforcement authority, the don't have the final say; the courts do. Tuning devices are not illegal and if the MoCo had any *****, they could have won the court case instead of settling and accepting the EPA's punishment. It's the act of modifying the bike to exceed EPA clean air standards that is illegal, not the devices used and, again, a court of law decides the punishment. As far as accessing the ECU, companies are using the DMCA (copyright infringement) as a basis for restricting access to the ECU. Fortunately, the Electronic Frontier Foundation is going to bat for vehicle owners and they are presently litigating these cases.
#17
Its a computer. Very easy to make it difficult to break in to. But easy or difficult is not really the point. We are moving to an era where it is illegal to do this. Individual people may find ways to get in to modify, (like jailbreaking your phone), but companies will not sell products that are illegal, so eventually none will be offered by commercial vendors who have an incentive to make their products easy, etc.
So those of us who modify our bikes will become like people who jailbreak their phones
So those of us who modify our bikes will become like people who jailbreak their phones
If you want to take a stand. Talk to your elected officials.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/the-d...h-on-hd-s.html
Last edited by todd-67; 09-08-2016 at 08:53 PM. Reason: Can't type for shit on my phone
#18
The MoCo caved into the EPA. Even though the EPA has law enforcement authority, the don't have the final say; the courts do. Tuning devices are not illegal and if the MoCo had any *****, they could have won the court case instead of settling and accepting the EPA's punishment..
Best to shut up and take it knowing that the aftermarket is already in the new ECM and if you want to live off the grid you can. When the decree expires the dealerships will go back to biz... just no non compliant parts from the moco.
#19
There's a line in this. The OEM has an obligation to deliver vehicles that are EPA compliant. The EPA would not stand for an OEM delivering an EPA compliant vehicle to the dealers if the EPA compliant version is not ending up in customers' hands. You need to look at extremes. If an OEM shipped every vehicle as EPA compliant but also shipped all of the performance parts most users wanted as part of the package, well then very few would end up EPA compliant on the road. The EPA expects the OEM to deliver compliant vehicles and that they encourage (I know loaded terminology) the customers keep them that way. By Harley selling a tuner has Harley endorsing such, and as the OEM they should not be doing that, according to the EPA. It is about picking your fight, but Harley probably didn't make squat on their tuners, in the big picture anyway, so it most definitely was not worth the fight. Putting your business on hold while litigation ensues is just stupid from a manufacturers standpoint. Frankly Harley should have known better. As the owner of a diesel truck I've heard the EPA argument for years. Yet the aftermarket still sells everything they did before to anyone with a credit card. So will it continue for motorcycle parts, EPA compliant or otherwise for the foreseeable future. Eventually modifying a vehicle will become either impossible or impracticle, but that won't happen in 2017 or even 2020 or even 2025. So everyone relax, situation hasn't changed, just Harley doesn't sell a Harley tuner. No biggie, many others out there! My understanding is it wasn't a great tool anyway.
Last edited by harkon; 09-08-2016 at 09:13 PM.
#20