whatever.

My hope is that Harley can get the bikes to the point, where modding a brand new bike isn't necessary to have the power I need straight off the showroom floor. I love the TC motors in 103 configuration.....after 255 cams, intake and full exhaust and a tuner.... Please don't tell me the new motor requires the same. I just want a strong touring bike stock.

~Joe

 

The issue is that YOU might want more power than another rider that's completely satisfied with the stock power out of the crate. And what YOU find to be powerful might be utterly weak by MY standards of power. The MoCo builds their bikes and their profit models to meet the least common denominator. Other than an exhaust change and possibly a stage 1 AC upgrade, the vast majority of new HD owners leave their bikes with stock power AND those same riders continue to buy HD bikes even though there are more powerful alternatives on the market.

And the MoCo's business model has to ensure they offer some level of performance upgrades for the guy that wants more (and gives HD more sales & profit). And the aftermarket pushes the envelope even further for the guy that is never satisfied and wants even more power. From my perspective, that's great news for all riders that love Harley's.

 

I here ya Joe. I'm on my 3rd twin cam, 2nd 103, and have never had anything but good luck and a lot of fun with em. Funny tho. It always starts out the same. I'm initially happy with the power, but always want more.... and the mods begin. Good news is that I test rode a new 107 and can honestly say its the strongest stock harley I've ridden. Obviously feels and sounds different than a healthy cammed, or rushmore 103 with full exhaust, Ac, and tune, but it runs real strong in stock form. Is it comparable to a rushmore ho 103 with a full exhaust, perfectly tuned, etc.? No... and yes. My current bike is no doubt stronger from about 3200 to 3800 rpm at full throttle, but the M8 is stonger across the whole rpm range and at part throttle, where most of us run with our touring bikes. Dealers across the country are offering test rides like I've never seen. I highly recommend testing one out. Ya might be pleasantly surprised.

No doubt folks like Jamie will help us out if/when we decide we need more.

 

Hey Joe,

I hear ya and can't disagree with your (and many others') statement.

As for me, I'd say they've done a great job of providing out of the box performance with the CVO line. I know we want more out of the "base" models, but I look at it like this:

You can buy a fairly pedestrian Mustang (or Camaro, if you insist) or you can buy one that will blow the doors off most anything on the street, and every level in between. You pony up more dough for each increase in performance.

Harley is similar, except they only have a couple levels of performance; pedestrian, or rocket ship. They're doing the same thing car manufacturers are, but without so many layers of upgrades.

Let's also acknowledge that they're trying to get more horses out of a fairly ancient motor and meet EPA regs to do it...I mean, even Porsche is water cooled these days to produce reliable, clean power...and Harley is doing it because most of us require the look and feel of an air-cooled engine. While, we complain about engine heat, I might add. There are trade-offs.

Truly, from what I see, the M8 is a significant upgrade in reliable, stable power and torque out of the box. Check out these nums from FuelMoto:

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...rmation-9.html

Know this, I just bought a '16 RK (screaming deal, they're so desperate to get rid of these things) and promptly added exhaust, intake, muffs and FP3 tuner. I know I'll require cams, and gear ratio change too, so believe me when I tell you, I get where you're coming from!

Still, I have less in the bike than a CVO, And it will be good for my purposes (mostly cool lope, low end torque and noise).

I hope this helps you or someone besides me feel better about the level of performance we get from stock "base" bikes. Just one guy's perspective.

 

As a guy who has owned 38 Harleys I can tell you that this is the FIRST one I've bought and really feel no need for cams etc etc. I thought is was very good as stock. I did put a set of Street Cannons on it and a ventilator air cleaner but more for looks than performance. I wanted to black it out. I appreciate performance and can be an aggressive rider on corners etc. This bike fills the bill. If I feel some need to go rocket fast, I'll take the 117 Low Rider out. I have 1170 miles on the '17 and love it.

 

That's a strong endorsement. Makes me excited for my new 2017 bike scheduled for delivery on 10/28.

 

I was very impressed with my 24 hour test ride but I still feel they need a stage 1 with a great tune. Suspension is what impressed me the most. Much better bike than my 13 stock.

 

I that's the same thing I had in my 15 RGS. The stock M8 is faster than my built 15.
The stock M8 is not faster than my stage 3, 10 RGC.
I traded both bikes for the 17 RGS. I'll pick it up Friday. just saying.

 

I wish Harley would offer an option to order the bike without the motor installed.

Then we could put our own build in it... kind of like the COPO Comaro.

I do like the new 17's nice upgrade over the Twin Cams... I bet in a few years they will be absolute monsters.


Just think about the power difference between an 88 and a 103 HO.

The first version out won't be the strongest .. got to have a reason to sell you new in 3 years!

 

In the mean time, back here on earth, you can always yank your brand new engine with 5 miles on it and sell it for a decent price.