Possible Brake-Failure 08 to 11 Harley
#121
07-20-2016, 06:30 PM
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Well, I had the dealer do regular 10k services. My bad thinking they would do it, or at the least, mention it. Alas, they maybe did, maybe not. Their response was lackluster, non committal. So, I'm guessing not flushed. Now I'm stuck trying to decide if this bike is safe to ride. Do I believe the dealer? Do I believe Harley? I'm just fortunate that the problem appeared in my driveway. Not on an off ramp.
#122
07-20-2016, 07:25 PM
Road Warrior
Some on this site have the view that the manual tells owners to replace the brake fluid every 2 years. If you don't replace the brake fluid then it's your own fault.
Normally I would agree with that viewpoint but not this time. Here it's different. A very important point is the brakes are failing NOT just the ABS. On almost any car or motorcycle when you don't replace the brake fluid your ABS light comes on. You can still stop but your ABS won't kick in to prevent lock-up. The ABS module on these Harleys are failing in such a way as to cause the brakes to fail. The brakes do not apply. Usually it's only the front or rear since cars and cycles now have separate front and rear brakes.
Page through your owners manual or service manual. Every page seems to warnings. Whenever working on suspension parts, swing arm, forks and brakes, there are warnings that loose bearings or mis-adjusted parts can cause loss of control and possibly a crash. But when it comes to replacing the brake fluid every 2 years there is no such warning. Why not? In this world of lawsuits they warn us about everything else that entails dangers. Harley Davidson does not warn owners that "Failure to replace brake fluid every 2 years could result in brake loss resulting in a crash and possibly even death". Why not warn us? It is because no one, not even Harley Davidson themselves thought failure to replace brake fluid would cause brake failure. They thought it would cause the ABS module to fail in such a way as to cause the ABS to fail to prevent wheel lock up. In actuality the ABS module is failing to allow the brakes to be applied! That is a major difference. It is like the ABS module thinks the brakes are locked up so they constantly try to RELEASE the brakes. Not even Harley Davidson thought that would happen. If they did they surely would have put warnings in the manual. I guarantee that if the manual said you could die if you didn't replace your brake fluid every 2 years then everyone would do it. Plus every time you brought your cycle into a HD Dealer for the most minor repair they would hound you "You've got to replace your brake fluid!" "Shall we do it now?" "If we don't you could lose your brakes".
Harley Davidson (like every other car and cycle manufacturer) has always said "if the ABS system ever fails you will still be able to stop with non-ABS braking." They did not lie on purpose. They never expected this type of failure. This is why Harley Davidson is (and should be) worried about lawsuits.
Normally I would agree with that viewpoint but not this time. Here it's different. A very important point is the brakes are failing NOT just the ABS. On almost any car or motorcycle when you don't replace the brake fluid your ABS light comes on. You can still stop but your ABS won't kick in to prevent lock-up. The ABS module on these Harleys are failing in such a way as to cause the brakes to fail. The brakes do not apply. Usually it's only the front or rear since cars and cycles now have separate front and rear brakes.
Page through your owners manual or service manual. Every page seems to warnings. Whenever working on suspension parts, swing arm, forks and brakes, there are warnings that loose bearings or mis-adjusted parts can cause loss of control and possibly a crash. But when it comes to replacing the brake fluid every 2 years there is no such warning. Why not? In this world of lawsuits they warn us about everything else that entails dangers. Harley Davidson does not warn owners that "Failure to replace brake fluid every 2 years could result in brake loss resulting in a crash and possibly even death". Why not warn us? It is because no one, not even Harley Davidson themselves thought failure to replace brake fluid would cause brake failure. They thought it would cause the ABS module to fail in such a way as to cause the ABS to fail to prevent wheel lock up. In actuality the ABS module is failing to allow the brakes to be applied! That is a major difference. It is like the ABS module thinks the brakes are locked up so they constantly try to RELEASE the brakes. Not even Harley Davidson thought that would happen. If they did they surely would have put warnings in the manual. I guarantee that if the manual said you could die if you didn't replace your brake fluid every 2 years then everyone would do it. Plus every time you brought your cycle into a HD Dealer for the most minor repair they would hound you "You've got to replace your brake fluid!" "Shall we do it now?" "If we don't you could lose your brakes".
Harley Davidson (like every other car and cycle manufacturer) has always said "if the ABS system ever fails you will still be able to stop with non-ABS braking." They did not lie on purpose. They never expected this type of failure. This is why Harley Davidson is (and should be) worried about lawsuits.
The only thing HD and it's top executives care about is selling motorcycles, increasing the price of HD Stock and their BONUSES.
Just like GM they would rather have a few people die and pay their families a settlement than to have to make the ABS right.
#124
07-20-2016, 11:26 PM
Not sure what you are referring to. Miscommunication perhaps... My 2011 abs module failed last year. Front brake lever locked, no front brakes. I have mentioned this numerous times in various threads and posted the actual manufacturers diagram of the abs brake system. Also reported abs problem to NHTSA last year. In other words, I am very aware of hd's abs issue.
Last edited by KumaRide; 07-20-2016 at 11:34 PM.
#125
07-20-2016, 11:33 PM
Time will tell. Same manufacturer. Also, why 08-2011, not 2012/13. Dont know what changed from 2011 to 2012/13 as they both use the same abs module. Maybe manufacturer changed something? Part numbers are the same, no revisions. A conspiracy perhaps??? just kidding, sort of....
#126
08-03-2016, 09:25 AM
FYI, i took my bike to the dealership for service yesterday because i was experiencing this issue after changing bars and getting air in the brake line. I asked for the brakes to be checked out and showed him how the front brake lever would "lock up" when the ABS module cycled as the bike is started. Tech said they'd never seen or heard of that before so I told him about the NTSB investigation. He then said "oh yah, that goes along with some things I've been hearing". Funny that he didn't know anything about it until i mentioned the NTSB and then he suddenly remembered he had actually heard about it.
#127
08-06-2016, 07:20 PM
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#129
08-06-2016, 09:56 PM
Similar here. Took the service tech 8 hours to diagnose a bad ABS/hydraulic pump. Said it requires rebuilding front master cylinder too. $780 parts & labor, have to order parts and no time table for completion.
#130
08-07-2016, 10:19 AM
Yes. It requires either re-plumbing the brake system with non ABS lines or fabricating some "jumper lines" to go around the ABS module. Pulling the fuse, unplugging the wheel sensors, changing to non ABS wheel bearings will disable the ABS but NOT guaranty freedom from the hydraulic lock defect.