Know what you mean. Can't hardly wait for the hot Florida summer months to see how it's "really" going to misbehave.

It's in the dealers hands at the moment to try to figure it out.

 

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OK,SINCE YOU 2 GUYS BROUGHT UP EXCESS ENGINE HEAT ISSUES MOST AIR COOLED HD'S HAVE IN SUMMER HEAT INTO THIS THREAD SO HERE GOES WITH SOMETHING ALL " OPEN MINDED " HD OWNERS CAN BENEFIT FROM LIKE I DID LAST YR!/LOL!

You can in fact get ride of the excessive heat issues HD's have in traffic in summer heat that results in multiple benefits right off the bat too when you again, " address & or significantly reduce the excessive heat all air cooled HD generate " in summer temp esp in sitting still in traffic by doing the following that reduced oil temp 50 +deg (cooler oil means engine temp was reduced too!) on hot summer days on my 09's w-96" motor resulting in mult positive improvements in engine perf & overall riding experience & comfort right off the bat.

I did that by installed an ultracool oil cooler with twin therm cont elec cooling fans along with wards Cooling Fans both at the same time for a max cooling effiicency which works like a charm!

NOTE:HD'S STOCK OIL COOLER WITHOUT ELEC COOLING IS " BASCIALLY USELESS " WHEN NEEDED MOST SITTING STILL IN TRAFFIC AT STOP LIGHTS & OR WHEN IN VERY SLOW MOVING TRAFFIC LIKE IN 1ST OR 2ND GEAR.

Why is thats,well it's because when sitting still in traffic or when in slow moving traffic in 1st-2nd gear there is little to no cool air flowing thru the oil coolers core without elec cooling fans thus being totally inefficient at cooling the oil & motor when needed most vs an oil cooler that has twin thermostatically controlled elec cooling fans .

Thats just nother case of HD almost getting there trying to do a good thing once again falling short!

Same goes for just to name a few is the mult poor Compensator designs hd's had for TC motor thru the yrs along with poor HD design of cam & prim chain tensioners,wheel bearings,IPB,starter clutch being weak,cracking faring mounts ,fretting of pins EFI connector on throttle body loosing throttle control ,stators & v-regs crapping out and more most of us are all too familure with.

But with that said i have to admit with all that going on over time with many HD's i still love my HD with all it's faults ,its got the " character " or that something going for it that other bikes just don't have when looking at them & or riding them that other bike mfg's will likely never duplicate though Victory is trying pretty hard to do!/LOL!!

Benefits of getting oil running 50+ deg f cooler in my 09 with TC-96" motor are as follows:

* NO MORE DETONATION/PING ON HD'S REC 91 OCT FUEL FOR 9.2 COMPRESSION MOTOR.

* REDUCED OIL TEMP 50+DEG F ON HOT SUMMER DAYS.

* OIL PRESSURE ON HOT DAYS BEFORE INSTALLING THE 2 COOLING MODS
WAS APPROX 8PSI ISH@ IDLE & 32-35PSI ISH @ CRUISE WHICH IS ACCEPTABLE BUT NOT OPTIMAL DUE TO EXTREME HEAT THINNING OIL.

POST INSTALLING 2 COOLING MODS REDUCING OIL TEMP 50+DEG F OIL PRESSURE IS NOW 18+ @ IDLE & 45-48ISH AT CRUISE ON HOT DAYS.

NOTE,I WAS RUNNING SPECTRO 25W-50 OIL SPECIFICALLY ENGINEERED & FORMULATED FOR HD'S BEFORE & AFTER INSTALLING THE 2 COOLING MODS SO THERE WASNT AN VARIATION IN HOT OIL PRESSURE THAT COULD BE ATTRIBUTED TO USING A DIFF MFG'S OIL THAT MAY STAND UP BETTER BEING MORE RESISTANT TO VISCOSITY BREAKDOWN & OR SHEER IN EXTREME SUMMER HEAT.

* VALVE TRAIN REMAINS QUIETER DUE TO LESS OIL THINNING & OR SHEERING OF ITS VISCOSITY.

* MOTOR RETAINS MORE OF ITS OVERALL PERF/PWR/TRQ BECAUSE THE MOTOR/INTAKE/FUEL ARE ALL RUNNING A BIT COOLER & NOT AS SOAKED BY EXTREME HEAT ALL AIR COOLED HD'S GENERATE IN SUMMER TEMP THAT SUCKS THE NICE CRISP / TRQ'Y FEELING THROTTLE RESPONSE RIGHT OUT OF MOST AIR COOLED HD'S ON HOT DAYS.

* MOTOR STARTS EASIER/FASTER POST FUELING UP ON HOT DAYS BECAUSE THE MOTOR/STARTER/BATTERY ARE ALL LESS HEAT SOAKED .

THAT HAS TO BE EASIER /LESS STRESS ON THE STARTER & BATTERY WHICH COULD OVER TIME EXTEND THEIR SRV'C LIFE A BIT TOO.

SAME GOES FOR MOTOR & ALL ITS INTERNAL PARTS AND OR PARTS ASSOCIATED WITH OR CLOSE TO THE MOTOR THAT ARE NOW RUNNING COOLER TOO.

HAPPY MOTORING!

LET THE FLAMES BEGIN!/LOL!

SCOTT

 

I hope they get it figured out. You've received some really good advice from people here. I'm curious to see if anyone nailed it. Keep us posted!

 

Definitely......

If I get it back in the same condition I will be looking for a new dealer. Additionally I will attempt to inspect all the components myself that have been mentioned from all these great folks.

 

Although, in my case, the problem very suddenly appeared and something has happened to cause it. I need to resolve this first.

I couldn't agree more with regards to the heat and potential negative effects it has on every component. I have been taking a long hard look at the "Love-Jugs". (http://love-jugs.com/order-pricing/) Everything I have read about them seems to be good. Will probably invest in a pair when/if I get my bike back.

Thanks a bunch for all this good information.

 

ThunderRabbit - - Any news from the dealer? I'm just curious what the solution is.

For some reason, these weird, elusive problems seem to suck me in.

Good luck.

 

The dealer had the bike Wednesday afternoon, all day Thursday and when I hadn't heard from them by around 2:00PM on Friday I called them as I needed it for a special event on Saturday. They hadn't even looked at it.

I told them to put it on a trailer and return it to me. It now runs worse than ever. A lot of decel backfire, feels like a dead miss in it somewhere as it shakes pretty bad at idle.

Just for giggles the other night I took it out for a 4 mile ride and when I returned I left it idle in the garage for approx. 4 - 5 minutes and recorded the entire trip on the SEPST. It began shaking wildly, and I mean wildly when it went into EITMS mode and began knocking loudly. I don't have a stethoscope so I used a long screw driver to see if I could pinpoint the area. That didn't produce anything I could hang my hat on.

Bottom line is it wants to go into EITMS mode after only a few minutes of riding and it is getting terribly hot. I am going to take it to another dealer Saturday to see if they can help me out.

Right now it is running worse than when the dealer first looked at itand they insist this the way Harleys behave to which I say BS.

Thanks for the interest in the thread. I will post my results after visiting this new dealer.

 

How do you know you're actually getting detonation? The compensator makes a noticeable knocking sound when it goes into EITMS mode, just FYI. You confirmed black 02 sensor to rear cylinder? My bet is crankshaft position sensor. BTW, idling for 5 minutes in a garage with no breeze will get a perfectly running bike very hot.

 

I am certainly no expert but I did verify the 02 sensors were correct. The black connector serviced the "rear" 02 sensor.

The bike was supposed to have had a new compensator installed about a year ago. At least this is what the dealer told me.

I have no idea if it is detonation or not. That is what I'm attempting to pay the dealer to tell me and fix it. All I can tell you is it will start knocking very loudly and will stall.

I can tell you I rode this bike for a year with no sign of a problem and this includes the hot summer months in Florida. I have been in many stop and go traffic situations and it has been scorching hot to the point it burned my inner thigh but I never heard a knock of any sort when it went into EITMS mode nor did it shake wildly or stall out in traffic. This began abruptly a couple of weeks ago. It was on a cool evening, about dusk. I pulled into a parking lot to attend our local HOG chapter meeting I let it idle for maybe 15 seconds to let my wife off and it suddenly starting knocking as if someone was beating on it with a hammer. Of course I immediately shut it off. We rode it home that same evening with no issues. Since then it has repeated this issue in traffic under stop and go situations where of course heat builds. It actually died a couple of times in traffic and no one can tell me Harleys are supposed to do this. Even on a cold start it feels to me like there is a dead miss somewhere.

I get the feeling the techs at the dealer have no idea what is going on so they attempt to shame me into believing I need to learn how a Harley behaves and just suck it up and get used to it. In another life (80's & 90's) I was an ASE certified auto technician and owned three service stations with full auto repair so I am somewhat familiar with internal combustion engines. Just not Harleys unfortunately. If this is how they are supposed to behave then why is mine the only one doing it?

I am preparing for a 1000 mile trip in a couple of weeks and I don't need to be putting up with this aggravation.

I certainly don't mean to rant. Reading through the forums it seems others have had similar experiences. My plans are to take it to another dealer about 40 miles away and see what they have to say. I just want the d**n thing fixed.

Thanks for the ideas.

 

not sure if mentioned but could be a possible sumping issue,this will make engine run rough and over heat,should be no more than about 6 ounces of oil in crankcase when pulling crankcase drain plug after a ride.