Scott...

You keep repeating this false information about ATF being thinner than "normal" primary lube. Maybe you remember this?

https://www.hdforums.com/forum/touri...l#post14113647

 

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There was no intent on my part to start an atf vs std pirm oil thread or debate even though you may have thought that was the case.

I will address your " Thinner " statement further down in this post because it depends on how you look at it esp when talking multi grade (10w-30/10w-40motor oil or 75w-90/75w-140 gear lube ) vs singe grade motor oil & ATF which i have reasons for saying that your or anyone else here may or may not agree with which is ok,your entitled too esp with the visc / ATF thread / link you posted.

Judst busitng your chops a little!/LOL!

Bottom line is that i am aware of HD has yet to rec ATF in TC motor prim case no matter what my opinion is (wrong or right ) of ATF visc wise or what you & or the chart/link says about ATF visc wise as far as i am aware of (unless i missed it !) HD has yet to cover any primary failures under std warranty or ESP if they find ATF was used in a TC motor prim case.

So i am still waiting for HD of someone else to show me long term/high mileage testing that been done by HD using straight atf in a TC motor HD prim that went the distance (50-60-70-80K+ miles) without having ATF / oil related primary failures with HD now rec to run ATF in the prim of TC HD motors.

See what happens under std warranty or ESP if the HD dealership finds someone was running ATf in the prim case when the bike had a comp , IPA or any kind of failure in the primary case,you would likely be denied coverage.

Same goes for any motorcycle oil mfg to do the same testing with atf in primary going the distance 80k+ miles without any oil related failures in the prmary case then rec ATf for TC motor primary.

You can bet HD engineers are well aware guys are running atf in the prim to quiet shirts and make it easier to find neutral too so dont you think if the powers to be @ HD thought anr knew running ATF in a TC motor was the right and or best thing to dothat HhD woldnt have switched to ATf in TC motor primaries by now if it they knew it could handle jod greatly reducing all the constant complaints and clutch adj they have to do trying to stop the bikes from clunking where shifting and issue finding neutral too?

I bet they dont because they know ATF was never designed for that app and they know they/HD engineers never designed the Tc primary to use ATF either which is why Hd " Doesnt Rec Using ATF " for the TC motor primary in the HD factory srv'c manual for their stock TC motored bikes that i am aware of either (Unless i missed it someplace!/LOLL!!.

Ya know,sometimes ya gotta go with what your seeing and or have experienced in your own hands wrenching for well over 4+ decades so with that said when is the last time you held & shook qt of atf then held & shook a qt of for example single grade 30w or 40w oil (not talking multi grade because atf isnt a multi grade oil to comparing apples to apples) not to mention when pouring single grade 30-40wt vs atf too?

The atf feels & like thin water when you sshaked the container compared to single grade 30w or 40w oil when you shake the container let alone 85w prim case oil,but i found single grade 10w-20w motor oil feels about the same as atf.

I also found the same to be true when pouring them ,aft and is like water compaired to single grade too,again,NOT MULTIGRADE.

That same thing can happen with full syn vs std dino even with both being same 20-50 grade.

Even though they are spec'd very close in same type viscosity graph the reality is on a nice 85-90deg day in a hd motor a quality 20-50 std dino holds better oil pressure then the syn does even though they are spec'd basically the same in same 20-50 visc.

So point there is even though atf may show same approx visc and or other properties as motor oil when it comes down to it ATF was never designed to take the trq/pwr abuse in an HD primary especially the comp & IPB.

And the only time i would personally take note of running straight atf in an hd primary as maybe being a good thing to do is if i saw mult cases (not just 1-2 cases here or there) where TC motored HD's running 100% atf in prim from day 1 brand new went 50-60-70-80K+ miles without what HD deemed an oil related prim failure & actually rec ATF for the TC motor primary in the process too,then i would take note & say ok,it looks as though atf can handle it.

But with the low quality bearings hd has been using for some yrs now that throw's a monkey wrench in getting decent data if there was any real atf vs prim oil in prim case testing for longjevity because of the compensator / bearing quality issues HD continues to have.

And yes i know some man trans in automotive/truck/construction equipement call for atf in transmissions etc ,but the fact there is the bearings/gears/syncro's /clearances etc in the trans etc in those apps " were all specifically designed to be lubed by atf " so of course it works ok in that app though ATF's major role was more from a hyd standpoint for many yrs and not meant or specifically designed to be a great lube for a compensator or trans bearing in an hD TC primary case.

Back in the early to mid 70's some local dealers of metric bikes (Kawi/Yami/suzuki) were running AFT in trans in crankcase of 2 stroke metric bikes for better clutch release/less clunking when shifting too and guess what?

All the sudden the metric bikes that didnt have any history of bottom end issues and or clutch or trans bearing issues or major trans failure in general were experiencing failure when running ATF which they/dealers at the time stated the failures were due to running ATF that was too light to properly protect those bikes that were never designed to run it.

ATf has its place ,thats for sure and many powerful machines mfg'd today using that are specifically designed to run it which is the keY statement.

And again,that i am aware of HD or anyone else has yet to run specific long term test with only ATF in an hd prim going 50-60-70-100k miles with no what they deemed oil related prim failures.

I totally agree that atf in the prim does stop the loud clunk when shifting and along with finding neutral easier too which is great for the short term.

Like i said in prior post here i wont run straight atf in my hd's prim case but i think i am going to try a 30/70 or 50/50 ratio mix of atf & spectro 85w prim oil and id not be surprised if the 50/50 didnt sig reduce or stop the clunk when shifting all together with the 50/50 mix .

And i think there's a very good chance the 50/50 mix ratio with still have good enough viscosity for plenty of protection of everything in the primary esp with my bike being basically a low perf stock 96" motor that i dont regularly hammer either not always loading the prim hard like guys do that are always on the throttle hard taking off and or have mods that increase pwr/ trq increasing the load on te prim thats a diff situation.

So with all that said we can continue to " agree to disagree on this subject which is ok !/LOL!!

Life will go on just for us & our HD's here in HDFroums no matter what i think or say about ATF's seemingly thin visc & the info in the link not agreeing with it,thats ok!

Though i dont personally know you i still think your a sharp guy when it comes to wrenching HD's etc and even though it may not seem like it because we dont agree on the ATF i do have upmost respect for you & your ability & or opinion when it comes to our HD's.

Heck,proof i respect you is i bought your "rockout lockers " & installed them on my expensive for me HD (having to pull out all the stops to get it ) with good results.

And like i said earlier i might even try a 30/70 or 50/50 mix of ATF & 85w Prim case oil that should hopefully ensure the visc stays a bit more stable (bit thicker for better protection then 100% atf ) some day when i get totally fed up with the loud clunk every time i shift which may be closer to happening then i think!/LOL!!.

But i would be hard pressed to run 100% atf even if HD was to rec it tomorrow for TC motor prim case use for reasons i already stated.

I like to support our fellow members here in HDforums which is why i also bought "Wards cooling fans "vs 1 of the other 2 main brands of cooling fans for HD's on the market these days.

Happy Motoring!

Scott

 

First ride on the new Baker Comp. Did not get to get out as early as I had hoped so only a 15 mile quick spin. First impression, that damn KA-BANG on start up is gone! Also letting out the clutch is much smoother. The jack hammering at low RPM is gone. On and off the throttle seems smoother as well. So first impressions are really good.
Now the strange part was there was very little wear on my original comp. No galling at all. I can only assume that the spring pack was shot after 44,500 miles. In actuality that comp has been bad for a long time. Just never knew how bad it was till it was replaced.

Oh and I am running Formula + Plan on sticking to it as that is one of the ones Baker recommends as well.

 

Mark I reached out to Don as well I'm about to install my new Baker compensator and attitude adjuster and came across this thread I just want to make sure I don't have a bad spring pack before I even put this thing in.. I heard a lot of great reviews I just don't want to feel uncomfortable with this install this is what I have.. I read the newer version of the compensator is supposed to have a k at the end mine as a c not sure how true this is but again I heard a lot of good things about your products and I just don't want to feel uncomfortable before this install any help from you is highly appreciated.. my kit came with the shims.. not sure if that has anything to do with the updated spring pack