The other difficulty is that when a US firm like Boeing wants to sell their aircraft to a giant like China they demand that a significant portion be manufactured in the purchasing country. Boeing can't afford to walk away from a major purchase...but it's a pretty short hop to eventually not even needing us anymore for much of anything. We won't be buying much stuff with our 'do you want fries with that' jobs.

 

I'm no fan of it either. I just see it s a policy dating back to McKinley/Roosevelt (Teddy). Right now, we're damned if we continue with China as we are, and we're damned if we don't. The one thing that the US has that is decades ahead of China is intellectual capital. They can manufacture anything they want, but someone else has to think of it and market it.

This conversation is not as off-topic as it would seem. Small- and medium-sized American companies that design and manufacture their own products are suddenly everyone's favorite thing to study, especially if they survived the economic ups-and-downs of the last 15 years. Not boutique manufacturing, like Indian. But companies like Victory, that produce an American-designed and America-produced (not just assembled) product at a competitive price point will be coming to the fore in all industries. I'd bet a whole sawbuck that legislation will be introduced to protect them somehow, not unlike what HD got in the '80s. Ironic.



The engines are still made in Oconomowoc, or somewhere around there. And final assembly, of course, in KC and York. But a lot of major components are offshored (Japan, Australia, Italy, China, etc.)

HD is a great bike. I ride one. Love it. And I have no problem buying things made overseas. But I have respect for Victory for resisting the urge to offshore like HD. Like Schu's been pointing out all along, it's ironic that the die-hard Harley riders who are so pro-American will turn around and bash Victory for not being a Harley.

I sure would like to ride one and see for myself what one's like.

 

Hi all,

Don't know what your smokin but China became communist in 1950 and sometime later the Chinese backed the north Koreans in a war that many americans didn't come back from. That same communisum spread to indo china where a bunch more americans died. Give your head a shake bub.

 

Don't know what you're smoking, but

a) the Communists were effectively in power well before 1950;

b) the US Marines and US Navy were in China well before that (and a lot of them didn't come back);

c) the US's Cold War policy in the Pacific Rim was to limit the spread of Communist Chinese influence and to protect developing trade interests with Nationalist China (Taiwan) and Japan--for a long time, the US really thought there was a chance to force out the Communists from China and return to the pre-War trade system;

d) when that didn't work, Nixon/Kissinger negotiated the re-opening of trade with China;

e) every president and congress since Nixon has worked to expand/strengthen trade relationships with China. Where we are with China now has been ~120 years in the making.

Give your head a shake, bub. (or just read some history)

PS The Korean "War" is not technically not over. Ask me how I know.

 

And this, faber, is why it's a very good thing that we (and our one-time enemies) don't live forever. The once young revolutionary guard in Iran is learning that fact the hard way.

Mao is dead, and though the Chinese profess to be red, they are in fact, Chinese (first and foremost). Freedom, with all its risks and problems, is inevitable (especially with today's communication tools). The whole world wants to ride Harleys, chug beer, and leer at young women.....it's just that some of them don't know it yet. It's up to America to 'learn 'em'.....we're the borg, and resistance is futile.

 

Krusty,

Mao is indeed dead. He was far easier to deal with then Hu Jintao! (And Hu Jintao knows well what Americans and Britons have always wanted in China.)

To be sure, the younger Chinese have a different sense of "communism." But the world saw how strong their national identity is during the Olympics. Yet, if you want to see how modern or Maoist the young Chinese are, just ask them about Taiwan and Tibet. See what they say. Just because we may want to forget history, doesn't mean they do.

The same applies to all the BRIC countries.

(As for "freedom," I never laughed so hard as when I tried to use Google in Beijing.)

We're getting a bit off-track here. I'm as guilty as anyone for that. My original point in the China digression was twofold:

1) Why hate the Chinese parts in Harleys? The US has been pursuing manufacturing interests in China for over a century.

2) Despite the cost-saving to be found in offshoring, especially in China, Victory has made what is the most "American" production motorcycle out there, at a competitive price point. Not too shabby in this fiscal environment.

 

Agreed. Sorry about my contribution to the digression from the original thread.

When I said the Chinese were always 'first and foremost' Chinese, I certainly meant they were quite nationalistic....they're an extremely ancient civilization (comprised of many diverse ethnic groups), with a history of simply absorbing invaders. What most Americans don't realize is that without the iron hand of communism they'd have fallen into chaos during the post-war period. They now walk a delicate line between expanding economic vitality and political dissent. We, and they, don't need a mess like the fall of the Soviet Union....it will happen in its own good time.

As for Victory....I hope they succeed....they're well capitalized (compared to any of the "HD clones", and have a distinctly American origin and appeal. I'd have seriously considered purchasing one if the price had been better, and the dealer network stronger. The worrisome thing about Victory is that their diversification strength also means that, 'worst case', they might have to abandon an underperforming division if the situation further deteriorates.

 

When I was a kid I lived in (British) Hong Kong for a couple of years. HK was, and still is, a boomtown, just dripping with foreign money, and with incredible poverty in every shadow. The British always felt a little scornful, as they expected the Chinese to have been grateful to the British for having introduced them to free-market capitalism. But the Chinese saw themselves as the original global traders (the Silk Road) and they saw the British as the sleezy backstabbers from the Opium Wars. To them the British, so consumed with the triumph of the present and the 100 years leading up to it, failed to recognize the previous 5000 years, as the Chinese did.

It will, or it won't. But if they do, they won't be running to the US or EU with open arms. They'll do it in their own way and time.

True. They don't even have a dealer in Montana. So not really an option for me. But I find their line and their business model interesting. They're just small enough to manage that balance that many here find interesting. If they try to expand to HD's size (they can't), then they'll have to do what HD did.

Cheers, Krusty

 

Hey zeus....An ALL American trike with two of your favorites...Harley AND Heinz!! Those Heinz forks make this trike more American than the Harleys you and I ride...LOL...Just kidding man. I couldn't resist...Have a Happy New Year.

Tech23

 

What no mustard??? What's up with that. haha. Good find. Great pic.