If you mean the IED products as being the quick fix, they will help keep heat down. I did not believe it would with such little extra fuel but it does. At long waits in traffic it takes much longer for things to heat up, and to get to operating temp while in the road. If you are worried about heat the IEDs will help a lot on the heat issue. On my bike it makes a difference. Just order them, put them on and go do your ride. You won't have to worry about anything other than a good time.

 

That's probably the route I'm going to go at this point. I think I'll throw it on and write up a comprehensive review about how the bike acts and feels with the new tuner. It won't be as scientific as a dyno, but it might help alleviate some of the debates that people have been having with this issue. I'll try to post up some video as well.

 

An opinion/review, without scientific evidence, from someone who- by their admission- is new to Harley EFI systems, is going to alleviate some of the debates?

Honestly that IS the problem here. Lots of opinion, very little evidence.

As for the $400-1000 thing, the tuner for my Street Bob was $199, came loaded with a map that should optimize the a/f ratio for my intake/exhaust, has unlimited map support, can be easily tuned by the user, and accepts any PC-V fuel map.

 

And thats the other problem. Someone asks a question and they get real life on the road this is what it does for my bike (from many people) reports, then someone comes along and says bullshit, this is what the tuners advertisement says.

Reality is he can ride the bike as is from the dealer on his 8,000 mile trip and be better than just fine. It will run perfect. Even if the entire 8k mile trip was 100F air temp. Besides that he is not running a street bob that gets waaay hotter than a sportster no matter what tune you throw at it. The sportster is not a schorcher engine.

The IED product has been proven over and over to add fuel, and cool the motor, even with only 6-8% more fuel, it does more than the small number would indicate.

 

"Running cooler" is meaningless to me. I want a proper a/f ratio under all conditions. An IED product is not capable of doing this. Period. If you have not measured your A/F ratio, your opinion is meaningless. Period. This isn't based on an advertisement. It's based on common sense.

 

Dusty Bones;
I have a FXDWG, I pulled my air cleaner cover to take a look, I have the air filter bolted onto the black plastic backing plate/snorkel,
1) are you saying pull the backing plate/snorkel (all one piece on my bike) then re attach the air cleaner?
2) And... where are you drilling your holes, in the air cleaner itself?
I am going to order the [FL-ViED-10] and install so the bike does not run too lean, I like that we can adjust it our selves. What I am thinking I may end up doing is upgrading to a Free'er flowing K&N air filter and cutting that Cat out of the header collector, I need to get the bike loud enough so the cagers can hear me around them, I have already had some close calls out on the road and I am sure it's because the bike so Quiet.
Thanks for the help bro, Bo

 

Allow me to face palm myself and call myself stupid and then laugh at myself. I mever looked to see what bike you have. I can only imagine what went through your head when you looked lol. I assumed you were talking avoit a sportster, look what happens when things are assumed.

Please accept my apology. I need to go for a ride to clear my head now.

 

It's All Good!!

 

WOW, I have not seen this thread since I posted in it a few days ago...lots of posts.

I agree with you on the above statement. NO ONE, has posted any evidence of anything working, except myself.

The above statement is absolutely false.

I tried to explain it in brief in my previous post. I will put the full explanation of how XiED products work and have a significant, measurable, positive effect in open loop down at the bottom of this post.

The ECM is constantly adjusting, and while it cannot adjust to give the most ideal tune, it can certainly keep the tune "out of the danger zone" for most conditions encountered, whether it is fuel, elevation, free flowing A/C and exhaust. Remember, a combination of fuel, heat, elevation, old plugs or plug wires can make more of a difference to the engine than adding a free flowing air cleaner & pipes.

We are talking about Sportster in this thread, NOT Twin Cams.

Going with free flowing a/c, free flowing pipes and an XiED product will give you about 90% of the available power you will get from a full tuner. While NOT crippling, it is not as great performance wise since you are leaving some available power on the table. However, as far as the longevity, it is immeasurable how small a benefit you can gain with a full blown tuner over an XiED product, if any at all.

Again, we are talking Sportster here (not Twin Cams, they are a completely different animal)....I have personally dealt with thousands of sporsters, and I have Never heard of anyone on this forum, or elsewhere, have a heat related engine malfunction, or "early" failure due to wear and tear, that was due to running an XiED product vs. a full tuner.

Those who know me know I ride very hard. Summer time we can have 30+ continuous days that don't drop below 90*. I have run XiED product on one of my Sportys for 3 years, a bit over 20K miles and never had a issue. When I pulled apart the engine to do a 1250 upgrade it was in great condition.

"Running cooler" is completely subjective, therefore not very useful in an objective conversation about what is ideal for an engine. It is useful in that it is describing a condition that is better than the condition it was in before when it was "running hotter".

The only way to know, with absolute certainty, if your AFR is in a good range is by using a sniffer to read the AFR. Which is why I posted the AFR chart above.

One final note, there are many magazine articles that have been published over the last few years, documenting that the ECM will adjust for free flowing A/C and pipes and the AFR will still be in "acceptable" MOCO range. Of course, most of us realize that it will not perform nearly as well as we would like, AND that the overall life expectancy will be shorter due to increased heat (even if it is in the "acceptable" range for MOCO).



Below is an article I wrote awhile back showing, in detail, how the ECM learns/adjusts-

The following information is based on conversations with our HD contact, our Delphi contact, HD Service Manuals, HD SEPST Documentation, TTS Documentation, and my own synthesis of years of experience with thousands of bikes.

It is probably not enough for some that may want a written explanation from HD or Delphi, but hopefully it will be of assistance to some in understanding HD Fuel Injection processes.

There may be some confusion regarding the term Adaptive Learning.

There are two ways the Electronic Control Module (ECM) adapts:

First, let's look at what input the ECM receives, so we know what it has to work with to make any "Adaptive" changes-

1. CKP - (Crankshaft Position Sensor): Basically this sensor monitors the crankshaft speed and position. The ECM uses the inputs from the sensor to determine what stroke the engine is in so it can deliver the fuel and spark at the desired time...

2. MAP - (Manifold Absolute Pressure): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much air is entering the engine.

3. IAT - (Intake Air Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to help calculate how much oxygen exists in a particular volume of air..

4. ET - (Engine Temperature): The ECM uses the inputs from this sensor to determine engine temperature...

5. TP - (Throttle Position): Provides input to the ECM as it reacts to throttle shaft rotation... These signals indicate throttle position, if the throttle is opening or closing and how fast it is opening and closing...

6. VSS (Vehicle Speed Sensor): Provides input signals to the ECM to indicate the speed of the motorcycle...

7. BAS (Bank Angle Sensor): If the motorcycle leans over more than 45 degree's from vertical... If the ECM receives this input for more than one second it assumes the motorcycle has fallen over and shuts down the fuel management and ignition circuit...

8. O2 Sensor: The are switching type sensors (stock HD's are narrow band sensors used in closed loop systems) they provide inputs to the ECM based on the amount of oxygen is being sent in the exhaust system...

9. ISS (Ion Sensing System): It detects detonation or engine misfire in either the front or rear cylinder by monitoring the electrical energy at the spark plug following every time spark...If an abnormal level of energy is detected across two or three spark firings the ECM responds by retarding the spark timing in the affected cylinder as needed to eliminate it... (Sportster do NOT have this feature)

All of the above sensors give data to the ECM to allow it to ADAPT to the ever-changing environment. This is one of the ways the ECM ADAPTS.

The second way the ECM ADAPTS is via "Adaptive Fuel Value" or "Adaptive Fuel" (reference the HD brand Tuners to see that this is a feature of the ECM) This is commonly what is referred to as the Adaptive Learning Mode.

Adaptive Fuel is known generally in the EFI world as Long Term Fuel Trim (LTFT).

When in closed loop the ECM uses the information from the above list to calculate airflow, load, temperatures, throttle position, to adapt and maintain the targeted AFR in the closed loop section of the map.

It then uses the o2 sensors to determine what the AFR actually is. If there is a difference, the ECM makes an adjustment real time to the closed loop map, AND stores the difference in an "Adaptive Fuel Value" cell for future use in Open Loop. (again, reference the HD Brand Tuners to verify that there is an Adaptive Fuel Value" that is stored in the ECM and that is constantly changing)

Over time (sources vary between 30-120 minutes of riding) the Adaptive Fuel Value develops a correction profile that is applied to each cell of the map in open loop.

To put it another way, when the ECM sees the closed loop values constantly being richer than expected (like when using an XiED family product), the Long Term Fuel Trim (Adaptive Fuel Value) is increased, resulting in a richening up of the open loop values.

I hope this helps those looking for a clearer understanding of the HD EFI.

 

Good explanation. I believe what you're saying is true about HOW the ECM works, but I need more evidence to believe the degree to which it can adapt. Knight Rider advocates and sells a wideband o2 sensor system. Most of the people on these forums who recommend various tuners have never had a wideband anywhere near their bike. Coming from an EFI motorsports background I don't really believe impressions, gut feelings, etc. I believe data acquired from instruments.