This debate on what to use has went on longer than any other thread on this forum to the point where arguing it makes little sense.

I am a firm believer you get what you pay for, that being said it really depends on many things a good tuner can set the bike running good in every gear, closed or open loop and adjust the air and fuel mixture. they come with a price though but the user can rest assure that the motor is running at its peak and the best it can be.

I never buy a one size fits all but some do and they swear by them, thou many have never had their bikes on a dyno so in reality they really have no clue what the motor is doing, but that is somewhat up for debate as well, Go figure..

I run the Power Commander V and I am very happy with it, I do find it a little funny though that people go out and spend tons of cash to make their bike look good but when it comes to how it performs they pay little or in some cases nothing at all..

 

bigmant;

Kevin gives a great explaination.In simple terms,the Xied/vied gives back what the EPA took away after you helped the breathing and exhaust with your upgrades.Your bike will have much improved low speed performance[under 50mph],smoother and less "bucking"and a somewhat improved hiway operation.Where I felt the biggest improvement was in lowend torque and cooler running.Going by what you said you were looking for in your original post,the Xied/vied seems to be what you need.

Glock Man

 

There is absolutely no doubt that a full tuner like a TTS or Power Vision is better than the XiED products, or even than a PCV.

There is also no doubt that you do NOT necessarily get what you pay for...just look at the thousands of people that have paid upwards of a $1000 for a tuner and a dyno tune and their bike runs worse than stock.

The thing many folks just don't seem to grasp...HD really does know what they are doing. The ECM already has AFR, timing adjusting for different speeds in different gears at different throttle settings, for different MAP, for different humidty, etc. The XiED products do NOT override this, they work with the ECM and all those adjustments are still made, just with a little more fuel at each different adjustment, to make up for what HD cannot do because of the EPA.

The biggest thing you gain with a full tuner is ability to adjust timing, which is NOT possible with the XiED product. But the HD timing from the factory is not so bad for a stock bike, or a stage 1 bike.

 

No... I was open loop. Throttle was at WOT and it was 15.9:1 right in the middle of the RPM range.

Problem with this debate is that it is almost entirely free of evidence other than "my bike ran fine when I did [insert something]." If everyone put their bike on a dyno with a wideband the debate about tuners wouldn't be much of a debate. You'd have ones that worked and ones that didn't. Unfortunately if you ask enough people on these forums you will find out that every tuner is both awesome and crap simultaneously, all with no concrete evidence to prove it one way or the other.

 

I punched out the baffle discs and pulled the snorkel restrictor on the ham can and drilled enough holes to get much more air at the air cleaner. On my 883 I am pretty sure the stock air filter is restricted mostly by the small intake opening. I ran that way on stock tune and I can tell it pumps air in much easier now. It was like trying to use one of them cocktail stirs as a straw, worked, but really had to work at it to get the drink through it. Stock tune ran much better doing that alone

Then I put a set of X14IEDs on my machine and what a difference. Low speed surge is gone. On the highway throttle response much better. Difference is night and day with just in my garage free mods to intake and exhaust.

Only real problem I can see the XIED product causing is the motor takes longer to get to operating temp now. Not a problem for me because I ride my bike. If all anyone does is ride to the dealer to hang out or the stop n rob or bar hop it will never see full operating temps. Condensation build up will be worse than with a stock tune. I did just over 300 miles yesterday and on the highway it took twice as long to get up to operating temp. Around town its 1.5x as long to get there.

From a riders perspective where I know any Harley is not meant to be a race machine and on the road a dyno sheet framed and hung over where it is parked means little to nothing, the IED products are all any rider will need on the road at 70mph. Pulling out around big rigs is much easier, the difference is noticeable from complete stock to opening it up and the X14IED.

I am certain the IED products are not designed for motorheads obsessed with absolute power and bragging rights. They are designed for people who ride. People like me who put 300 miles on in one day here in MI. Who only seen 4 other bikes, well 3 others and not a single one was a Harley and all of them got passed by a lowly 883. A Goldwing, two crotch rockets and a spyder. Where are you MI Harley riders? It was 62F yesterday and in 300 miles I seen ZERO Harleys. I will admit though, guy across the street started his, and I heard one a couple blocks away.

If you ride, the IED product is all you need, even with the most expensive intake and exhaust. If you need to spend more $$ then go for it. It wont help the ride any.

BTW DK, i got some work to do on my truck. If that gets done for less than I budgeted and it looks like it will. I will give you a call and get the air cleaner set with the breathers and the dry air filter. My bike has yet to puke even a drop of oil but I hear so much good about that air cleaner set up. Even set ups 2-3x the cost dont get as good of reviews.

So maybe in the next couple weeks I will give you a ring. I been waiting for that dry air cleaner to come out for a while now.

 

OK HOLD ON FOLKS!!!

We don't need this to be a which is better debate, if I wanted that I can just use the search bar haha.

What I want to know is essentially what happens on the other end of the spectrum with XIED. JDUB, you said that it was dangerous. Well I want to know why. Is the bike going to burst into flames when I go WOT or are we talking about damage to the engine in the long run?

I get that the system works well in the closed loop, and DK says that is utilizes HDs tuning for the open stage, but is the slight leanness in the open loop going to negatively effect the bike in anyway? As in will I feel it, or will it hurt the engine in the long run. And long run being what? The next 10 miles or 10,000?

 

Its a stretch to say that its dangerous IMO. It most certainly wont burst into flames and like DK said the HD ECM adjusts itself accordingly so I wouldnt see why you would have damage at all. I think youre overthinking this a little bit, keep it simple because it seems like you have a grasp on the pros and cons of both sides.

To boil it down to nothing, if youre ok with leaving some power on the table and dont want to spend 500-700 more bones than get the xied.

 

Burst into flames? Nah. May want to look into A/F ratios, pinging/detonation/knocking, EGTs etc. in naturally-aspirated engines and draw your own conclusions.

 

You've obviously never blown a hole in a piston because you ran lean. I never have on a Harley but I have on other engines.

 

His question is regarding the use of an xied, which will do the opposite of make his engine run lean. You're obviously not good at reading things in context.