Hey guys,

I will be a first time Harley Davidson owner shortly, but need some help in deciding which bike to get.

First, I'll give you a bit of background about myself that might be relevant:
- I've been riding motorcycles since Jr. High School, obviously starting out with a dirt bike. I've been racing motocross since I was about 17, but recent events forced me to step out of such an expensive (and injury prone) sport. When I was racing motocross, I rode a CRF450R.
- I had a Suzuki Katana in High School that I rode on a daily basis through rush hour traffic on my way to work for a little over a year.
- My father recently purchased a 2010 FatBoy Low and I have some considerable seat-time on that bike.

Lately, my wife and I have been going on rides on both my dad's and uncle's Harley Davidsons and we're loving it. She thoroughly enjoys the mountain cruises, and I enjoy the twisties. If I were to get a bike solely for myself, I'd probably hop on a GSXR or something of the like, but my wife would probably want to punch me in the back of the head every time we rode it because it wouldn't be comfortable for her. So, I've been looking at Sportsters because I'd like to have a bike that I can lean over a bit further without scraping the floor boards like I do on my dad's FatBoy, and one that my wife won't hate riding on the back of.

Here comes the dilemma:
I don't know whether or not to get the 883 or 1200.

- I love the flat black look of the 883, but I'd like the power of the 1200. I'm not looking to drag race the bike, but I'd like not to be left in the dust when I go for a ride with my dad and uncle as we merge onto the highway or cruise around, especially with a passenger.
- Insurance will be cheaper for the 883.

Like I mentioned before, I'll be using the bike to cruise around with the wife, but I'll also be using it as a commuter on a highway that has a speed limit of 75 mph. Mainly, I just want it to be a fun bike, I don't need the ape-hangers, I don't need a fat back tire, I just want a fun bike to scoot around on, but I don't want to be left feeling like I'm riding a moped with pipes. I know that I need to test-ride the bikes (and I plan to), but I'd like to get some opinions before I do that.

On a side note, what should I be looking for as I shop for bikes? What kind of questions should I be asking, and what kind of answers should I want?

Thanks ahead of time for reading my novel, and I look forward to reading your responses!

 

Also, here are some of the bikes I'm looking at. Which ones look best to you?

http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2902563388.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2985214539.html
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2889362436.html
http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2...ster-103446945
http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2...-883-102912816
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2938199221.html
http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2...ster-102868017
http://denver.craigslist.org/mcy/2972908011.html
http://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2...ster-103234331

 

Sounds like you've done some homework. Here are my suggestions.

First, most of the Sportsters these days have "lowered" shocks on them from the factory. As you know this reduces lean angles. Thus there are a couple Dynas that have even better lean angles than the Sportsters. Something to consider.

Power wise the new 103 engines that you see in some of the Dynas will outperform the 1200 Sportsters stock for stock even when you factor in the power to weight ratios between the two bikes. Up until this change in 2012, the 1200 Sportsters were the quicker bikes.

You're looking at older bikes too. One thing to note is that on the older Sportsters there was a major change in 2004. The engines went from being frame mounted to rubber mounted. While this reduced vibrations, it also increased the weight of the bikes by 50+ lbs. The earlier frame mounted Sportsters were just under 500 lbs wet.

Now, some things to consider about 883 vs 1200. You are right, the 883 is cheaper on insurance. However, that rate is based on your VIN number. Keep this in mind. (You will see this information again Grasshopper. LOL)

The 883 is not underpowered. I am 6'1" and weighed 240 when I would take my 883 and ride two-up with my 130 lb g/f. The 883 could go anywhere we wanted it to and freeway speeds were not a problem. That said, there was a lot of shifting involved and I would have to drop a gear and grab a lot of throttle to make it up some of the steeper hills just to maintain speed when 2-up.

Believe it or not, the biggest issue when riding 2-up was suspension. If you look at the picture of my 1999 Sportster in my sig, you'll note it has Road King air shocks on it. $50 off eBay and the best upgrade for solo/2-up riding I made...even better than the gel pad 2-up seat I bought (bike only came with the stock Solo seat).

This did a number of things. One, for riders over 175 the stock shocks can bottom out on very large bumps. A certain rough section of road by my house would knock fillings out it was so bad. With the air shocks on, you didn't even feel these bumps. When riding 2-up, we bottomed out on the slightest of bumps. The air shocks really helped there and my g/f said they were the best mod I put on the bike. Third, they raised the back end up slightly and gave me a bit more lean angle. Even with the forwards, I had a ton of lean in the bike. My buddy has a 2010 Fatboy Lo and he'd scrape his boards on turns that I didn't even have to think about on the Sportster. Huge difference.

Now, remember we talked about the 883 insurance being based on VIN? Well, the beautiful thing about having an 883 is that you can upgrade it to a 1200 or a 1250. If you do, the insurance is still based off an 883 VIN. I have Progressive and when my Sportster was wrecked (it had been converted to a 1200) the "upgrade" was covered under the $3000 of "accessories" coverage I had. Now, the 883 comes with higher gearing because of the lower power output of the engine. This means that a 1200 is slower accelerating than a 883 to 1200 conversion with all else being equal. While it will rev higher on the freeway for any given speed, I could cruise over 70 for well over 130 miles without the bike missing a beat. Also, the gearing with the more powerful engine made it easier to go up hills without downshifting...even 2-up.

Now, note that the 04 and later heads are better heads than the 03 and earlier however they are interchangable. When I did my 1200 conversion, I got a ripping deal on some 1998 1200S heads but if it hadn't been for that I would have looked for a set of 04+ 1200 heads to do the conversion. (Note, you don't HAVE to changes heads when doing a 883 - 1200 conversion...I just wanted to. For more information and the different options available, do a search for 1200 conversions.)

 

Man, what a wealth of information! Thanks so much for sharing! I've seen the 883 to 1200 upgrade thrown around, and it sounds like it's close to $1k to do? I was thinking about starting with the 883, and as I grow a mod-budget, I could look at upgrading to a 1200 which would mean I should be able to get the bike a bit cheaper initially, and have the cheaper insurance as well. But, I've also seen people recommending to not waste the time/money and just do it right the first time around.

But I think there are a lot of wins with doing the 883 - I get the look I want, I get the lower insurance price, and I can go 1200 later.

 

Not trying to add confusion but I thought 04+ went to EFI, what year did they throw on EFI? I want to 883 to 1200 and I'm trying to find the best way to do it for power/$ considering I own a 2001.

I don't think you will feel like your riding a moped with pipes on a sporty. I have riden all the Hondas and the sort before and when I get on one of those I see where your coming from, on my XLH883 I feel like it has a lot more bike (metal). Personally this is a feeling I only get from a Harley, that your riding something more then plastic and aluminum. Yes its heavier but that isn't always a bad thing as popularity would show.

I ride a lot with my girl on the back because she just can't get enough of it, and she has a rocket of her very own. I weigh +/- 150lbs and she is around 100/110. We have absolutely 0 power problems.

To me twisties on my bike are more fun then a rocket and better exercise

 

06 the Sporties went to EFI and were rubber mounted. 04-05 they were rubbermounted and had Carbs. 03 and earlier were solid mounted and carbs.

No problem. Glad to help. Price is about $1K but it depends on what route you take and what parts you use to upgrade. On my 1999 883 upgrade, the total cost of parts was about $700 and I did most of the labor myself. That was shopping around for bargins (my heads and cylindars cost $150 total. They came with pistons but were shot so I had Dan at NRHS bore the cylindars .010 over, get new .010 over Thunderstorm Pistons, and freshen up the 1200S heads for about $500...that was the biggest part of my upgrade cost but the parts were basically like brand new) and with heads, cams (used w-grinds), and ignition (A used 1200 ignition to replace the 883 ignition I had). Price on a 1200 conversion on an EFI bike may run more because of the tuner required for EFI and just how far you want to go. A simple kit (about $700 for the 1250 from NRHS that reuses your stock heads) and tune would be about $900 but if you wanted to go all out (same kit but now with ported heads, cams, and a better tuner) you could get into the $3,000 range. The answer to "how fast do you want to go" is "how much do you want to spend".

Define "right"?

To me, there are a number of reasons why a conversion is a better choice than just getting the 1200 to begin with. Again, my opinion. First, you save money on insurance since your rate is based off engine size as recorded with the VIN as opposed to what it actually is. Second, you don't have to stop at 1200...you can go 1250. Most who have done a basic 883 to 1250 conversion have found the bike to be quicker than a stock 1200 even though the stock 1200 has much better heads. Third, the price difference between a stock 1200 and a stock 883 is equal to or more than the cost of a 1250 conversion kit...assuming you'll do the work yourself.

The drawbacks, of course, are that you do have to do work. Whether you do it yourself or you pay someone to do it, you do have to physically work on the bike to do the conversion. Buying a 1200 to begin with doesn't require any work. So if you aren't comfortable doing the work yourself, or you aren't made of money, then buying a 1200 to start with may be the better choice. Second, you will have to wait to enjoy the power of the 1200. When you buy your bike and up until the day you do the conversion, you will have to ride an 883. The difference between the two is night and day, trust me, so while the 883 isn't underpowered...you may feel like it is. For some, this is such a downer that they would rather just have the 1200 to begin with.

In the example above where I mention a $3k conversion, keep in mind that there are parts in that conversion that a 1200 upgrade would need too. Cams, a tune, headwork and other misc. items make up a lot of that cost. Only about $1200 would account for cylindars, pistons, and stock 1200 heads. The other $1,800 would be spent on either a 1200 or conversion no matter what model you started with.

Only you know what's right for you but it sounds like you're on the right track. For you, if looks is something important remember to factor in the cost it would take for you to make a 1200 look like the 883 you want versus making the 883 into a 1200 or 1250. This makes the conversion route, even if someone else is going to do the work, more affordable. Also, you have the insurance costs to consider. Talk to your agent about what it would cost to insure an 883 vs a 1200 and then ask if they base that amount off the VIN (I have yet to hear of an insurance company that doesn't, but you need to ask yours to verify this). As long as you don't mind running around on an 883 for a while until you save up for the conversion, it sounds to me like that may be the route that's best for you.

 

If the wife's comfort (and thus support of and participation in your habit) is important, I'd give very serious consideration to a Dyna. As stated, many models have better lean angles than Sporties and either the 96 or 103 will out run the 1200 with a bit of tweaking.

The ride is more comfortable for both rider and passenger. We have two Dynas and a XL1200L and enjoy them all. But the g/f won't ride the back of the Sporty unless we run out of gas and have to double up a few miles to a station.

 

I do have to agree with Taddeoeg on most of this. My Dyna is definately more of a comfortable ride 2-up than the Sportster because your passenger can have a bit more room. Stock, the shocks and seat on the Dyna are definately better too.

The part I must take point on is the one I marked in bold. If you take a stock 1200 and a modified 96 or 103, of course the modified bike will have the edge. Stock for stock, they are very close to begin with. The 96 ci Dynas are just below a stock 04+ 1200 power to weight. We're talking on some models it's tenths of a difference. With the 103s, some Dynas stock for stock have a slightly better power to weight ratio than a stock 04+ 1200 Sportster also by only tenths of a difference.

The problem I have is comparing modified to stock. There are modified Sportsters putting out over 100 hp at the rear tire and are still streetable (without a turbo, mind you). Even if you take the cost of the bike AND the cost of the mods for the Sportster and add them together, the cost comes out to the same as some stock Dynas. So where do you draw the line of comparison? Each side has benefits, each side has drawbacks. And then you have model issues too...for instance, my FXDWG can't touch my Sportster when it comes to lean angles (even before the RK shocks were added) and it was even worse with the stock pipes.

The only time I compare a stock bike to a modified bike is when you start talking the merits of an 883 to 1200 conversion versus a stock 1200. Other than that you'll see a lot of "stock for stock" and "all else being equal" statements in my posts.

For the OP, be sure you really do your homework when you start looking at modified bike performance. I usually go one further and compare Power to Weight to Cost to see which option is best for me.

 

Just a correction: 2007 was the first year for the EFI, 2006 models still have/had carbs (I have a carbed '06). I'm guessing you are looking at an Iron since you mentioned flat black... those will all be EFI. Not sure if the Nightsters came in flat black, that would be another option for a 1200.

I don't have a whole lot more to add... just remember with these Sportsters... there is a ton of aftermarket parts, you can make it pretty much whatever you want.

I ride 2 up with my wife every now and then, nothing more than say 50 miles each way, and I've never felt the need for more power with my stock 1200, even on the backroads around here (lots of twists and hills). Granted, I have upgraded my front springs, rear shocks, upgraded the engine to stage 1 (intake/exhaust/rejetted carb), and added a backrest. Riding solo to work every day is a blast, 80 miles a day, plenty of power on the interstate for me.

 

Allow me to clarify - I said "tweaked" not "modified". I completely agree that we can't compare a turbo or NOS anything to a stock anything. In pure stock form, the 1200 accelerates a bit quicker off the line then does my 96" Dyna. Once we hit 3rd and 4th gear the Dyna closes the gap and in 5th the Sporty is seeing taillights.

As for lean angle, my Street Bob cuts a much tighter corner than does the Sporty Low. But the Sporty leans more than the Lowrider Dyna my g/f rides. Never been on a WG so I can't comment on that.

If you tweak both bikes with pipes, fuel mgmt, and breather, the Dyna will still end up faster and forever more comfortable. Depending on the model Dyna some shocks and tires will continue to allow it to best the sporty on the twisties.