I officially hate single rotor brakes
#11
06-26-2011, 05:07 AM
Not to mention intersections are slick by all the oil and antifreeze leakage by cars and trucks onto the asphalt. Remember 70% of your stopping power comes from the front brakes. And don't do a Osco and two finger it. I got my hand slapped a million times by MSF instructors when i took the course doing that. I haven't done it since. Start using your front break more in straight line stops.
#12
06-26-2011, 05:23 AM
The two finger cover is for speed adjustments mostly, not emergency stops.
Those MSF Instructors slapped you cause you were at very low speeds and often
turning the bike. The "Slap" was so you would not dump the bike,,as In front end
not perfectly straight,,a little front brake and down ya go.
Wildon,,I do almost all my stopping with two fingers,, I also use the two finger
methode during trail braking.
Sounds like you need to learn more advanced braking techniques.
Your not a rookie anymore,,the MSF Instructors methodes are limiting you.
The OP's stop,,
Two fingers fiirst starts weight shift sooner with less chance of grabbing.
Once rotation begines(weight shifting forward) I would have gone to four fingers.
I can howl the front brake with two fingers only,,you should be able to also.
Brake control Is everything, always room for Improvement.
Those MSF Instructors slapped you cause you were at very low speeds and often
turning the bike. The "Slap" was so you would not dump the bike,,as In front end
not perfectly straight,,a little front brake and down ya go.
Wildon,,I do almost all my stopping with two fingers,, I also use the two finger
methode during trail braking.
Sounds like you need to learn more advanced braking techniques.
Your not a rookie anymore,,the MSF Instructors methodes are limiting you.
The OP's stop,,
Two fingers fiirst starts weight shift sooner with less chance of grabbing.
Once rotation begines(weight shifting forward) I would have gone to four fingers.
I can howl the front brake with two fingers only,,you should be able to also.
Brake control Is everything, always room for Improvement.
#13
06-26-2011, 05:27 AM
Trail Braking,,
Trailing off the brakes Is all about safety.
Setting Speed Precisely:
Trail Braking's bottom line is safety. The ability to trail-brake allows you to set your cornering speed closer to the Apex which is the slowest point of a corner. Those who use their brakes in a straight line and then let go of them to steer their bikes are deciding very early in the corner what speed they need. If you always ride the same road thats ok-as long as there are no mid-corner surprises.
But the ability to use your brakes while leaned over will allow speed adjustments all the way through the corner, even past the apex if the neccessary.
Yep,,another way I look at It,,,
I trail brake in and power out,,always
even If only a tiny bit. I Keep a wide line till I see the corner exit.
When I transition from trail Braking and my corner speed Is set,
I look for the Apex and for me this Is the Slowest point because At that Point I begin to accelerate out of the turn,,
Again this acceleration I use to assit In "Standing the Bike up"
which IMO does feel far more stable than just steering the bike out.
My Goal,,ONE steering Input on entry and no other Bar Input changes after that.
I wan't all my traction available for braking, lean angle and acceleration.
Any directional changes after the entry are with careful brakes and throttle.
YES you can safely use brakes IN the corner If a shut throttle is not quite enough.
But you better be smooth and know the light touch.
Also I've learned how easy Cagers get spooked In multi lane corners...
I track a Car type line because using the whole lane on a bike,,,diving for an apex
scares the crap outta many cagers.
This applies to emergency stops like the OP's short yellow light.
He chose and rightly so a way out,,the hard turn.
Think of the added safety he would have with real brake control.
Setting Speed Precisely:
Trail Braking's bottom line is safety. The ability to trail-brake allows you to set your cornering speed closer to the Apex which is the slowest point of a corner. Those who use their brakes in a straight line and then let go of them to steer their bikes are deciding very early in the corner what speed they need. If you always ride the same road thats ok-as long as there are no mid-corner surprises.
But the ability to use your brakes while leaned over will allow speed adjustments all the way through the corner, even past the apex if the neccessary.
Yep,,another way I look at It,,,
I trail brake in and power out,,always
even If only a tiny bit. I Keep a wide line till I see the corner exit.
When I transition from trail Braking and my corner speed Is set,
I look for the Apex and for me this Is the Slowest point because At that Point I begin to accelerate out of the turn,,
Again this acceleration I use to assit In "Standing the Bike up"
which IMO does feel far more stable than just steering the bike out.
My Goal,,ONE steering Input on entry and no other Bar Input changes after that.
I wan't all my traction available for braking, lean angle and acceleration.
Any directional changes after the entry are with careful brakes and throttle.
YES you can safely use brakes IN the corner If a shut throttle is not quite enough.
But you better be smooth and know the light touch.
Also I've learned how easy Cagers get spooked In multi lane corners...
I track a Car type line because using the whole lane on a bike,,,diving for an apex
scares the crap outta many cagers.
This applies to emergency stops like the OP's short yellow light.
He chose and rightly so a way out,,the hard turn.
Think of the added safety he would have with real brake control.
#14
06-26-2011, 05:31 AM
Covering the front brake In traffic Is a must Learn technique IMO
BUT you must have the control/skill first.
I bet the OP braked hard,,skidded then LET GO of the brakes to make that turn.
At His present skill level that was his only option,,letting go.
He did good on the bail out,,bad on the Intitial technique. He was Lucky
Riding with Luck will only save you so many times.
He should develope the skill to where he could have braked hard, NOT Locked
the back AND if still commited to the hard right hander and been able to continue
braking Into the turn right up to full lean angle.
Only way to gain this type of braking control Is to Learn trail braking and
learn how to cover the front brake.
Wildon as you mentioned,,Intersections are slippery,,damn right they are !
Thats why we should practice hard emergency braking on wet roads of
many different surfaces.
Thats why we should all learn to use the brakes(Both) while leaned over
even In the wet stuff.
It can be done safely and of course with limited lean angles and lighter braking
on the slippery stuff.
BUT you must have the control/skill first.
I bet the OP braked hard,,skidded then LET GO of the brakes to make that turn.
At His present skill level that was his only option,,letting go.
He did good on the bail out,,bad on the Intitial technique. He was Lucky
Riding with Luck will only save you so many times.
He should develope the skill to where he could have braked hard, NOT Locked
the back AND if still commited to the hard right hander and been able to continue
braking Into the turn right up to full lean angle.
Only way to gain this type of braking control Is to Learn trail braking and
learn how to cover the front brake.
Wildon as you mentioned,,Intersections are slippery,,damn right they are !
Thats why we should practice hard emergency braking on wet roads of
many different surfaces.
Thats why we should all learn to use the brakes(Both) while leaned over
even In the wet stuff.
It can be done safely and of course with limited lean angles and lighter braking
on the slippery stuff.
Last edited by Osco; 06-26-2011 at 05:37 AM.
#16
06-26-2011, 01:26 PM
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#17
06-26-2011, 01:47 PM
When I find myself in a situation like that, I progressively apply more front while letting off the rear. When the weight shifts forward it forces the front tire into the pavement, increasing traction and available braking power. Slowing down mid-turn is risky, it's usually best to scrub off as much speed as possible then accelerate through the turn.
#18
06-26-2011, 07:49 PM
Road Captain
I know it has already been stated but...
If you lock up a tire, the brake is not the issue. Not only do you need to use BOTH brakes, and let the rear up a tad when it bites, but there is a key to this that you need to understand. It is simple physics and applies to all vehicles.
Tires. The brakes will only perform as well as the tires will allow. Vehicles can see upwards of 50 ft. improvement in stopping distance, simply by using different tire compounds.
I will say though, that it appears as though you may benefit a great deal by taking some intermediate riders courses. It never hurts to get some training as well as hands-on in a safe environment, plus you could be eligible for a discount from your insurance company.
If you lock up a tire, the brake is not the issue. Not only do you need to use BOTH brakes, and let the rear up a tad when it bites, but there is a key to this that you need to understand. It is simple physics and applies to all vehicles.
Tires. The brakes will only perform as well as the tires will allow. Vehicles can see upwards of 50 ft. improvement in stopping distance, simply by using different tire compounds.
I will say though, that it appears as though you may benefit a great deal by taking some intermediate riders courses. It never hurts to get some training as well as hands-on in a safe environment, plus you could be eligible for a discount from your insurance company.
#19
06-26-2011, 08:31 PM
#20
06-26-2011, 09:17 PM
Ultimate HDF Member
Single rotor fronts stop just fine.
It was you, you need practice and lots of It,,many do so your not alone.
50ish in a 45 zone, ok not bad.
I cover the front brakes with two fingers and start my SQUEEZ that way.
I will admit I have dual fronts but still It's mostly technique.
When you start the squeez you keep squeezing harder and harder.
one to 1.5 seconds...
when you practice say it to yourself, "I gotta squeez",,,Say It and time your
squeez by saying It.
You must wait for the weight transfer and this you control with the squeez.
The back brake,, Inna pinch, just rest your foot on It with a little toe pressure.
use only foot muscles not lower leg muscles.
Think, "Dragging the back, Stopping the front".
Most Important,,,You got surprised by the light. that means two things and two
things only.
You were driving too fast for your eyes,
You were driving too fast for your abilities,
Start every ride with a few braking drills,,learn to "Howl" the front without locking It.
remember, as the weight rotates forward the rear brake needs less foot pressure.
It was you, you need practice and lots of It,,many do so your not alone.
50ish in a 45 zone, ok not bad.
I cover the front brakes with two fingers and start my SQUEEZ that way.
I will admit I have dual fronts but still It's mostly technique.
When you start the squeez you keep squeezing harder and harder.
one to 1.5 seconds...
when you practice say it to yourself, "I gotta squeez",,,Say It and time your
squeez by saying It.
You must wait for the weight transfer and this you control with the squeez.
The back brake,, Inna pinch, just rest your foot on It with a little toe pressure.
use only foot muscles not lower leg muscles.
Think, "Dragging the back, Stopping the front".
Most Important,,,You got surprised by the light. that means two things and two
things only.
You were driving too fast for your eyes,
You were driving too fast for your abilities,
Start every ride with a few braking drills,,learn to "Howl" the front without locking It.
remember, as the weight rotates forward the rear brake needs less foot pressure.
We've all Heard em, some of us have made em.
"Yeah I dropped it in that gravel while I was turning"
"The corner tightened up on me and I couldn't make It"
"I dragged the center stand and lost the back end"
"I came up on that slow cager so fast I grabbed the brakes and Lost It"
And so on,,,,,
In everyone of these excuses, the rider was too close to the edge of traction, his bike's limits or his own riding abilities.
The unexpected happend and the rider didn't have enough margin to deal with it.
The result is a crash and a weak excuse.
We, well most of us know when we are riding our bike's at 100%.
Most often we are showing off, or gettin on it.
Think about knocking off at least 30% of your aggressiveness when your on the mean street's,,
"Yeah I dropped it in that gravel while I was turning"
"The corner tightened up on me and I couldn't make It"
"I dragged the center stand and lost the back end"
"I came up on that slow cager so fast I grabbed the brakes and Lost It"
And so on,,,,,
In everyone of these excuses, the rider was too close to the edge of traction, his bike's limits or his own riding abilities.
The unexpected happend and the rider didn't have enough margin to deal with it.
The result is a crash and a weak excuse.
We, well most of us know when we are riding our bike's at 100%.
Most often we are showing off, or gettin on it.
Think about knocking off at least 30% of your aggressiveness when your on the mean street's,,
Things you can do to Improve your side vision:
(1) When your watching TV look to the corner or the green On light,,focus all you can on that spot and try to see the whole TV picture.
(2) Take a walk down a side walk and hold your eyes Horizon Level dead ahead,,now count the sidewalk cracks as you walk. How many can you see ? This will improve with practice and I Betcha In time you will see things on the road sooner.
Eyes are like any muscle or any skill, they get better/faster with practice.
(1) When your watching TV look to the corner or the green On light,,focus all you can on that spot and try to see the whole TV picture.
(2) Take a walk down a side walk and hold your eyes Horizon Level dead ahead,,now count the sidewalk cracks as you walk. How many can you see ? This will improve with practice and I Betcha In time you will see things on the road sooner.
Eyes are like any muscle or any skill, they get better/faster with practice.
How often do I do braking drills ?
Every single ride,,I still do em.
only takes a few minutes and helps give the tires
time to warm up.
Plus cold tires are more slippery,, this Is great
for learning traction control while braking. XD
Wet roads,,you betcha, I still do a few drills.
Every single ride,,I still do em.
only takes a few minutes and helps give the tires
time to warm up.
Plus cold tires are more slippery,, this Is great
for learning traction control while braking. XD
Wet roads,,you betcha, I still do a few drills.
The two finger cover is for speed adjustments mostly, not emergency stops.
Those MSF Instructors slapped you cause you were at very low speeds and often
turning the bike. The "Slap" was so you would not dump the bike,,as In front end
not perfectly straight,,a little front brake and down ya go.
Wildon,,I do almost all my stopping with two fingers,, I also use the two finger
methode during trail braking.
Sounds like you need to learn more advanced braking techniques.
Your not a rookie anymore,,the MSF Instructors methodes are limiting you.
The OP's stop,,
Two fingers fiirst starts weight shift sooner with less chance of grabbing.
Once rotation begines(weight shifting forward) I would have gone to four fingers.
I can howl the front brake with two fingers only,,you should be able to also.
Brake control Is everything, always room for Improvement.
Those MSF Instructors slapped you cause you were at very low speeds and often
turning the bike. The "Slap" was so you would not dump the bike,,as In front end
not perfectly straight,,a little front brake and down ya go.
Wildon,,I do almost all my stopping with two fingers,, I also use the two finger
methode during trail braking.
Sounds like you need to learn more advanced braking techniques.
Your not a rookie anymore,,the MSF Instructors methodes are limiting you.
The OP's stop,,
Two fingers fiirst starts weight shift sooner with less chance of grabbing.
Once rotation begines(weight shifting forward) I would have gone to four fingers.
I can howl the front brake with two fingers only,,you should be able to also.
Brake control Is everything, always room for Improvement.
Trailing off the brakes Is all about safety.
Setting Speed Precisely:
Trail Braking's bottom line is safety. The ability to trail-brake allows you to set your cornering speed closer to the Apex which is the slowest point of a corner. Those who use their brakes in a straight line and then let go of them to steer their bikes are deciding very early in the corner what speed they need. If you always ride the same road thats ok-as long as there are no mid-corner surprises.
But the ability to use your brakes while leaned over will allow speed adjustments all the way through the corner, even past the apex if the neccessary.
Yep,,another way I look at It,,,
I trail brake in and power out,,always
even If only a tiny bit. I Keep a wide line till I see the corner exit.
When I transition from trail Braking and my corner speed Is set,
I look for the Apex and for me this Is the Slowest point because At that Point I begin to accelerate out of the turn,,
Again this acceleration I use to assit In "Standing the Bike up"
which IMO does feel far more stable than just steering the bike out.
My Goal,,ONE steering Input on entry and no other Bar Input changes after that.
I wan't all my traction available for braking, lean angle and acceleration.
Any directional changes after the entry are with careful brakes and throttle.
YES you can safely use brakes IN the corner If a shut throttle is not quite enough.
But you better be smooth and know the light touch.
Also I've learned how easy Cagers get spooked In multi lane corners...
I track a Car type line because using the whole lane on a bike,,,diving for an apex
scares the crap outta many cagers.
This applies to emergency stops like the OP's short yellow light.
He chose and rightly so a way out,,the hard turn.
Think of the added safety he would have with real brake control.
Setting Speed Precisely:
Trail Braking's bottom line is safety. The ability to trail-brake allows you to set your cornering speed closer to the Apex which is the slowest point of a corner. Those who use their brakes in a straight line and then let go of them to steer their bikes are deciding very early in the corner what speed they need. If you always ride the same road thats ok-as long as there are no mid-corner surprises.
But the ability to use your brakes while leaned over will allow speed adjustments all the way through the corner, even past the apex if the neccessary.
Yep,,another way I look at It,,,
I trail brake in and power out,,always
even If only a tiny bit. I Keep a wide line till I see the corner exit.
When I transition from trail Braking and my corner speed Is set,
I look for the Apex and for me this Is the Slowest point because At that Point I begin to accelerate out of the turn,,
Again this acceleration I use to assit In "Standing the Bike up"
which IMO does feel far more stable than just steering the bike out.
My Goal,,ONE steering Input on entry and no other Bar Input changes after that.
I wan't all my traction available for braking, lean angle and acceleration.
Any directional changes after the entry are with careful brakes and throttle.
YES you can safely use brakes IN the corner If a shut throttle is not quite enough.
But you better be smooth and know the light touch.
Also I've learned how easy Cagers get spooked In multi lane corners...
I track a Car type line because using the whole lane on a bike,,,diving for an apex
scares the crap outta many cagers.
This applies to emergency stops like the OP's short yellow light.
He chose and rightly so a way out,,the hard turn.
Think of the added safety he would have with real brake control.
Covering the front brake In traffic Is a must Learn technique IMO
BUT you must have the control/skill first.
I bet the OP braked hard,,skidded then LET GO of the brakes to make that turn.
At His present skill level that was his only option,,letting go.
He did good on the bail out,,bad on the Intitial technique. He was Lucky
Riding with Luck will only save you so many times.
He should develope the skill to where he could have braked hard, NOT Locked
the back AND if still commited to the hard right hander and been able to continue
braking Into the turn right up to full lean angle.
Only way to gain this type of braking control Is to Learn trail braking and
learn how to cover the front brake.
Wildon as you mentioned,,Intersections are slippery,,damn right they are !
Thats why we should practice hard emergency braking on wet roads of
many different surfaces.
Thats why we should all learn to use the brakes(Both) while leaned over
even In the wet stuff.
It can be done safely and of course with limited lean angles and lighter braking
on the slippery stuff.
BUT you must have the control/skill first.
I bet the OP braked hard,,skidded then LET GO of the brakes to make that turn.
At His present skill level that was his only option,,letting go.
He did good on the bail out,,bad on the Intitial technique. He was Lucky
Riding with Luck will only save you so many times.
He should develope the skill to where he could have braked hard, NOT Locked
the back AND if still commited to the hard right hander and been able to continue
braking Into the turn right up to full lean angle.
Only way to gain this type of braking control Is to Learn trail braking and
learn how to cover the front brake.
Wildon as you mentioned,,Intersections are slippery,,damn right they are !
Thats why we should practice hard emergency braking on wet roads of
many different surfaces.
Thats why we should all learn to use the brakes(Both) while leaned over
even In the wet stuff.
It can be done safely and of course with limited lean angles and lighter braking
on the slippery stuff.
Your so full of **** Osco, your breath stinks.........
You don't even have the common courtesy to give thanks or mention to the people who's **** you plagerize on a daily basis......
cHarley's right, they should give your own forum called "Osco's believe it or not".
.