Actually, the ECM will compensate for aftermarket components. According to Stephen Mullens (remember, he has a product to sell as the owner of Nightrider), you absolutely, 100% do NOT need any type of aftermarket tuner or download, or anything else to safely run aftermarket exhaust and intake. His product, by his own admission, is to satisfy a need that is perceived, but doesn't actually exist.

 

He has a FUELPAK hooked to the ecm set up for high flow a/c and pipes. The fuelpak adds fuel ontop of what the ecm thinks the motor needs for a stock set up. So your saying going back to stock a/c with the fuelpak at the same settings will not be more rich?

 

V&H will send you different setting. Call or email tell them whats going on. They are pretty good about it. Try the new settings and see how it runs.

 

I haven't looked at what parameters the FUELPAK overwrites, but as long as it is using the O2 sensors to adjust, then no, it shouldn't be richer with the stock A/C than it is now.

 

According to the fellas at Nightrider the ied's are only good from 0-4,000 RPM.
After that the Fuel Pack takes over its for 4,000 RPM+ . According to Nightrider the ied's and the fuelpack work great together. I just havent gone that route yet.
I just got back from a 25 mile ride and I can smell how much more rich the exhaust and the bike is running. The difference in idle and throttle response is noticeably changed: Idle is much more smooth, Throttle response is not as snappy as it was with the High Flow but there is still a ton of torque. I will see how it goes and make up my mind with what to do later.

 

Aaron, this symptom is commonly referred to as the cold start stumble. A ton of the 1200s experience it ever since 2007 when they went to EFI on them. Some exhibited it and some didn't, I think it basically depends on the airflow characteristics of each individual engine and they are not all the same.

I guessing your bike did not exhibit this symptom when you first got it. Then after running with the pipes and A/C you have on it, changed the flow to the point where HDs sloppy warm up fuel programing started to rear it's ugly head.

Mine had this problem when it was brand spanking new and completely stock. Short story long, after replacing everything in the EFI system, MOCO took a SERT, adjusted the warm up mode in a new ECM, overnighted it to the dealer, they put it on and it was cured.

So if you have a real tuner such as a SERT or TTS or the likes where you can acess the tables of the ECM, you can tweek that stuff out.

 

If what you say is true why do you run a PCV on your bike? Wouldn't the o2 sensors adjust? Have you seen the a/f ratio of a bike with just pipes and high flow a/c and no tuner? Would you agree stock bikes are lean from factory? Why would anyone need a tuner to add fuel if the stock ecm will richen the mix as needed? Stock bikes are lean to meet EPA regs. You add a/c and pipes you need to add fuel more fuel than the ecm will allow!

 

Actually the bike has done it since day one....it has just become irritating.
I assumed by adding a fuelpack it would help with more fuel and stop it but I guess not....Its just stupid.

 

I have a PCV because I didn't know better when I bought the bike. Having done the research since, I would not do it again (btw, it's for sale if you want it). The O2 sensors would adjust, but the PCV takes them out of the loop. Yes, I've seen the a/f ratio of a stock bike with pipes and Stage 1 a/c with no tuner. Stock bikes are lean (but not dangerously so) from the factory. People add the tuner for many reasons, not many of which are actually problems. The ECM will adjust to add enough fuel to maintain the factory programmed AFR regardless of a/c and pipes added. You add a tuner to get more performance than you can get from just a/c and pipes. Some run it rich to keep the engine cooler, although this can also cause problems. You also add it to alleviate cold stumble.

Do some actual research, don't just argue on a forum. Go to Nightrider.com, and talk to Stephen Mullens. This is what he does for a living.

Run what you want, it's not my money, and won't hurt my bike at all.

 

You are correct in that, stock, our bikes are set up to run lean to help meet EPA regs. The fallicy in your argument is that this means the ECM is set to povide a limited amount of FUEL regardless of the amount of AIR coming in. This is not true. The stock ECM is programmed to maintain a set AIR/FUEL RATIO (AFR). This means if the ECM detects the exhaust emmisions are showing a leaner AFR than the ECM is set for (meaning there is not enough fuel in the mixture compared to the amount of air that is in the mixture) then it will instruct the injectors to increase the amount of fuel to get the AFR where it is programmed.

A fuel pack or PowerCommander V (PCV) will change the AFR to be something different than what the ECM is programmed for. It does this by "skewing" the return from the O2 sensors so the ECM reads this return as being "leaner" than it actually is thus tricking the ECM into adding fuel or the outputs from the ECM to the injectors thus making the injectors add even more fuel than the ECM is calling for (depends on the system and it's programming).

IN THEORY the stock ECM should read the additional flow created by new pipes and a/c and add fuel to match the increased airflow. However, the result will still be the slightly lean condition that the bike had when it came from the factory, just with a much more efficient system which should create more power (more air = more fuel = more power) but yet better fuel ecconomy (more efficency = better ecconomy at cruise conditions).

What tekdiver500ft says makes sense. After all, the ied's change the voltage coming from the O2s to the ECM to make them "read" lean. IF they work, this means the ECM is more than capable of adding enough fuel based on O2 readings. Thus unless you're wanting to richen your mixture from stock, the ECM is capable of compensating for a/c and exhaust modifications.