Originally Posted by Deuuuce

AGATT. And riders like myself ride safe and have equipment for safer crashing. If you don't think a FF is more effective than a 3/4 or 1/2, you're stupid, period.

The NFL helmet study is based on impacts, and has on partially to do with face guard protection, another analogy you missed. And you completely missed it about racing. And all the other contributions in this thread.

Driving without a seatbelt is sometimes a better experience, and rarely, a life saver. But it is stupid too.

Originally Posted by eleutheros

Yep, happily stupid enough to ride motorcycles since 1964.

More daily miles on a bike than in a cage, riding in helmet required and no-helmet required states.

AGATT. Good. As you know that is safer than some choose to be, but not even close to covering all the safety available. As you know your bike is not safe since only Gold Wings come with air bags.

Most riders who claim to use all safety gear, don’t. They have minimalized lighting instead of extra lighting, and don’t have air horns, leg guards, flourescent reflective clothing/helmets, airbags, peripheral vision glasses, full size windshields, extended full size rear view mirrors, ear plugs, safety vest, stability control, upgraded dual front brakes, flashing brake lights, flags, etc.

If you think you’re safe with a bucket, one inch of foam, and bump/scratch resistant clothing while riding next to 2,000 – 10,000 lbs of steel cages at 70 mph, and excuse any and all evidence otherwise as something “missed”, well ok, you win the no prize.

“But here is a puzzle. If the risk of riding is so high, how can some people ride motorcycles every day for decades” http://ridingsafely.com/ridingsafely1.html. “There are two approaches to avoiding accidents:
• The SUV mentality: Have accidents, but avoid the results.
• The Anti-SUV mentality: Avoid accidents entirely”

Originally Posted by Rog48

The blah blah blah was in reference to this never ending continuous loop thread...

Originally Posted by eleutheros

Yep, happily stupid enough to ride motorcycles since 1964.

More daily miles on a bike than in a cage, riding in helmet required and no-helmet required states.

AGATT. Good. As you know that is safer than some choose to be, but not even close to covering all the safety available. As you know your bike is not safe since only Gold Wings come with air bags.

Most riders who claim to use all safety gear, don’t. They have minimalized lighting instead of extra lighting, and don’t have air horns, leg guards, flourescent reflective clothing/helmets, airbags, peripheral vision glasses, full size windshields, extended full size rear view mirrors, ear plugs, safety vest, stability control, upgraded dual front brakes, flashing brake lights, flags, etc.

If you think you’re safe with a bucket, one inch of foam, and bump/scratch resistant clothing while riding next to 2,000 – 10,000 lbs of steel cages at 70 mph, and excuse any and all evidence otherwise as something “missed”, well ok, you win the no prize.

“But here is a puzzle. If the risk of riding is so high, how can some people ride motorcycles every day for decades” http://ridingsafely.com/ridingsafely1.html. “There are two approaches to avoiding accidents:
• The SUV mentality: Have accidents, but avoid the results.
• The Anti-SUV mentality: Avoid accidents entirely”

Originally Posted by Twospot

I don't think anyone here will say they are SAFE because they are ATGATT (I know I won't say that) because riding is not safe. However I am SAFER for wearing ATGATT than those who do not. I have a higher chance of living and/or less injury in an accident. There clearly are exceptions. But overall I am safer... not safe. It's all about the ladder of risk.

Originally Posted by eleutheros

Probably not even half of the 3 wheel atv riders got hurt, but it sure got a bad rep quick.

Originally Posted by rjg883c

And has a result, 3 wheel ATVs aren't sold new anymore. And there was a time they outsold 2 wheeled dirt bikes. That made sense because it meant almost anyone could ride them. Another thing to consider is that because "everyone crashes" doesn't have to mean serious ambulance ride, hospital stay, crashes.

When discussing helmets even riders experiencing a minor slide going around a corner, or a slow speed get off, may benefit from a helmet if their heads hit something solid.

I agree "degrees of safety" is important. But for me that includes balancing the "misery(?)" of wearing a helmet for a few minutes, or hours, at a time against the possibility of living a life at less then 'full speed" or abilities.

Originally Posted by eleutheros

Good post. Thanks. The personal decision of how safe/protected to be is everything.
This is a ff thread, and the original question should be wear what you want without telling or forcing (with a law) others outside family to wear what you want them to wear.

"Everyone crashes" is just an opinion, maybe by those who have really had everyone around them go down (strange), and/or maybe those who think it must be so. Scaremongers will even include the future to anyone who says it's not so. Maybe some define it as including a minor slide and get off like you say. If that's it, and it includes not hitting the head, then it certainly can't be used to scare/force people into using helmets. It's completely open to interpretation. Lots of people have not had it happen as transportation.

If it means what I think it should mean, that is everyone crashes means a injury crash, and therefore it's used to justifies a law for everyone to wear a helmet, then it's absolutely false, else motorcycles would fall into the 3 wheel atv danger level, meaning it would be obvious.

We are not always honest with ourselves, but our lives count on it. Of my freedom of choices how much safety should I have to ride today? Flashing lights and horns, boots, helmet, or no ride at all? Our needs, personal feelings, experience, training, and health of the moment tells us. Sometimes I have told my wife no ride at all.

Originally Posted by Twospot

. real harley owners don't wear FF helmets. In my short riding career of just over a year, that assessment is correct.

Originally Posted by eleutheros

Good post. Thanks. The personal decision of how safe/protected to be is everything.
This is a ff thread, and the original question should be wear what you want without telling or forcing (with a law) others outside family to wear what you want them to wear.
.