Getting picked on by 5-0 for my helmet..
#31
02-03-2010, 06:20 PM
#33
02-04-2010, 12:14 AM
Banned
pretty darn bored!
but since it is up here is a thought and true story. anyway there was another guy in michigan who was in kinda the same boat with leos harrassing him. One day he decided to fight back.
Being a citizen of the USA, you are also a citizen of Washington DC since it is the nations capitol. Now with that being said the cost of a cheap lawyer in DC will cost you about $5,000 just to start for a retainer. BUT anybody can file a lawsuit in DC from the comfort of your computer for under $100.00. He sued the leo, the judge and the sheriff of whose jail he was in.(in DC) Not as a public servent (the city and state lawyers will pick it up if you do it that way) but sued them personally. Therefore they had to pay for their own lawyers. He cost them about $5,000 each, then he appealed each of them twice costing each of them another $10,000. Did he win any money? NO but he cost them a hell of alot more money than they ever cost him. The next tine he was arrested the sheriff refused to allow them to take him to his jail. That is a true story.
but since it is up here is a thought and true story. anyway there was another guy in michigan who was in kinda the same boat with leos harrassing him. One day he decided to fight back.
Being a citizen of the USA, you are also a citizen of Washington DC since it is the nations capitol. Now with that being said the cost of a cheap lawyer in DC will cost you about $5,000 just to start for a retainer. BUT anybody can file a lawsuit in DC from the comfort of your computer for under $100.00. He sued the leo, the judge and the sheriff of whose jail he was in.(in DC) Not as a public servent (the city and state lawyers will pick it up if you do it that way) but sued them personally. Therefore they had to pay for their own lawyers. He cost them about $5,000 each, then he appealed each of them twice costing each of them another $10,000. Did he win any money? NO but he cost them a hell of alot more money than they ever cost him. The next tine he was arrested the sheriff refused to allow them to take him to his jail. That is a true story.
#34
02-04-2010, 12:59 PM
Tourer
There was an artical in or something in HOT BIKE, where the guy got a ticket for no lid because someone had stolen his that night, he was on his way home when he was cought....and wanted to know how to fight it. I sent him an email..but his reply is what was interesting. He said he was told...to take the his lid to court, tell the judge it was DOT approved, just the he had taken the sticker off for looks nothing more. In order for them to prove it is not DOT approved they would have to cut it in half and test it, and they will not do that because of the cost, and if it is DOT approved they will have to buy you another lid.....just relaying the message...
#35
02-04-2010, 05:01 PM
Cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
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For any traffic ticket you should go to court. More then once I've had them canceled out by the judge because he liked my testimony or the arresting officer didn't show, or even once when the arresting officer who showed up, and I recognized, had a different name then the one signed on the ticket, he claimed the other guy couldn't make it to court!! What's up with that?
This is over 55 years of driving, by the way. I saved the cost of the ticket and the jacking of my insurance rates. It's always worth a shot to go to court.
This is over 55 years of driving, by the way. I saved the cost of the ticket and the jacking of my insurance rates. It's always worth a shot to go to court.
#36
02-04-2010, 05:04 PM
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#37
08-15-2020, 10:57 PM
#38
08-16-2020, 02:14 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
The following users liked this post:
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#39
08-16-2020, 04:14 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
Should old threads have an expiry date?
What I also don't get is why some folk get upset for getting a ticket for a law they have broken. Take it on the chin and move on.
Incidentally did you see the report from a crash at Sturgis that involved a young kid who hit two bikes coming the other way? The way the report has been written would make it appear that he and one of the other riders were not wearing crash helmets and are dead.
What I also don't get is why some folk get upset for getting a ticket for a law they have broken. Take it on the chin and move on.
Incidentally did you see the report from a crash at Sturgis that involved a young kid who hit two bikes coming the other way? The way the report has been written would make it appear that he and one of the other riders were not wearing crash helmets and are dead.
#40
08-16-2020, 04:34 AM
Tourer
This is great information.
very interesting read....seriously read it
i pasted it from the link below
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Tickets.html
How to fight a helmet law ticket
I'm not an attorney. This presumes you were wearing a helmet, but not a "legal" helmet. If you weren't wearing any helmet,I think you just bought a fine.
I think beanie helmets are only slightly better than wearing no helmet at all - these helmets are about 3% as safe as a DOThelmet. In order to protect your head in an accident, a helmet must be fairly thick. The thickness is the room necessary to give your head some stopping distance. Without the thickness, your head stops in almost no time and the forces become too large to survive. However, I strongly dislike helmet laws. I think people should have the right to commit suicide however they wish. So, here's how to beat a helmet law ticket.
From time to time, and over-zealous cop will write a ticket for wearing an "illegal helmet," by which he means these beanie helmets. Many people who have these beanie helmets have a DOT sticker on the helmet. If you don't have such a sticker, I recommend you get one and put it on your helmet, and claim in court that it was on the helmet at the time you were stopped.You should be able to get such a sticker at any chopper accessory shop. Don't bring your helmet to court.
Plead not guilty. Appear in court on your trial date. Be on time. Dress nicely, like you were going to your cousin's wedding. You are on trial, not your helmet, you. Basically you're on trial for not looking right. Don't give them the added evidence of showing up in torn greasy jeans and a dirty shirt. Don't wear any leather, don't wear a vest, and don't wear your colors. If you have long hair, wash it and tie it back. This stuff matters, don't think it doesn't. Don't think that the judge isn't allowed to consider this - he can consider any damned thing he wants, and he will. Don't give them anything for free.
Print out all the following documents, three copies of each, and bring them to court:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...t/fmvss218.htm - the DOT specification.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../1_ovsc_1.html - DOT statement that certification is the manufacturer's responsibility.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27802.htm - the definition of a "helmet" in California.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27803.htm - the California helmet law.
Look at the following documents, if your helmet is shown as "PASS" you're home free.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin...ss218/2182.pdf - 2003 DOT testing results. See if your helmet actually passed.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2002s218.html - 2002 DOT testing results.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2001s218.html - 2001 DOT testing results.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2000s218.html - 2000 DOT testing results.
An attorney will want a couple hundred bucks to represent you. You have to decide if it's worth the money. If you're a bright guy and can speak well and keep your cool, you can probably do this on your own. If you clam up in public and have trouble talking, or if you tend to get mad and start arguing or yelling, maybe you should get an attorney. Your call. If you get an attorney, show him this document. You can go to your local Harley shop and ask where the local ABATE office is. They might help you. Unlikely, but it's worth a phone call. At your local chopper chop or Harley dealer they might be able to tell you about other people who have gotten this ticket and what they've done.
The cop has to show up to testify - if he doesn't show, you're off. If he does, he has to testify that you were riding a motorcycle, wearing a helmet, and that the helmet "obviously" doesn't meet DOT specs. As soon as he says "obviously," before he can finish the sentence, you object. The basis of your objection is that the officer has not been certified by the court as an expert witness in the field of helmet construction and certification. No matter how the DA tries to ask the cop questions about the construction or certification of your helmet, you object. Don't let him get anything into evidence other than that you were riding a bike, wearing some kind of helmet, and the cop pulled you over for no other reason and wrote you for the helmet.
When the prosecution is done grilling the cop, you ask the judge if the prosecution is done making their case. He'll ask the DA, and then say "yes." You then say, "The prosecution has not shown my helmet. They have offered no expert testimony on what the DOT test is. They have offered no expert testimony on which helmets are DOT compliant. They have offered no expert testimony on which helmets are not DOT compliant. They have offered no expert testimony on whether or not my helmet is DOTcompliant. They have not shown my helmet as evidence, nor have they shown any feature of my helmet that is lacking or sub-standard. I move for dismissal for failure to prosecute." Excellent chance the judge throws out the ticket right there.
If the judge doesn't throw it out, you have to cross examine the cop and testify yourself. When it's your turn to ask the officer questions, you start grilling him on the DOT spec - what is it? Ask if the cop has a copy of the DOT helmet specification with him. He doesn't. Ask if he's ever read the specification. He hasn't. Show the cop the DOT specification.Ask to have it entered into evidence. Give a copy to the judge, and another copy to the DA. Ask the cop if he's ever seen it before. Ask exactly which part of the law your helmet didn't meet. Ask how he determined this. Ask how helmets are tested? what is the testing mechanism? what are the specifications? who tests the helmets? If he tries to answer these questions in any technical fashion, like starts talking about dropping helmets with aluminum heads and accelerometers, ask where he learned this stuff. Ask the cop if he has an engineering degree. Ask if he has a copy of the DOT specifications with him.Basically, your job is to point out that these are highly technical engineering specifications, and the cop is not an engineer- if he was, he wouldn't be a cop. When you're asking the cop these questions, make certain he only answers your immediate question - if he tries to start talking about your helmet, ask the judge to make him stop. The cop will try repeatedly to point out that your helmet is thin, and DOT helmets are thick. Jump on him about this - ask if he measured your helmet's thickness. Ask if he measured his helmet's thickness. Ask exactly how thick a helmet has to be. If he answers, ask how he knows this. There's no DOT rule about how thick a helmet has to be. Ask if thickness is part of the DOT spec (it's not). Ask if liner material is part of the DOT spec (it's not). Ask if he can tell you the precise chemical composition of the "good" liners. Ask if he has your helmet. Ask why he didn't confiscate it for evidence. Ask if he has a picture. Again, don't bring your helmet into the court room, that just makes it available for the prosecution as a piece of evidence. Be certain to ask the cop if you were wearing a helmet.
You testify that your helmet has a DOT sticker, that it was sold to you as a DOT compliant helmet, that neither you nor the cop nor the motorcycle shop owner are experts in DOT helmet testing, that you bought the helmet to comply with the law, and that you believe you are in compliance with the law. Testify that you think your helmet is just as safe and just as thick as any other helmet. You also point out that no evidence has been given that your helmet is not in compliance expect for the spoken opinion of the cop, who is not an expert and not entitled to an opinion on how your helmet would perform in a DOT test.
After that, you're done. The judge will do what he does. Most judges will throw the ticket out, as they don't want to get into a big engineering argument about what is and what is not a DOT helmet. A few will jump on you just 'cause they can.That's it, it's a crap shoot. However, I think the odds are in your favor.
i pasted it from the link below
http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Tickets.html
How to fight a helmet law ticket
I'm not an attorney. This presumes you were wearing a helmet, but not a "legal" helmet. If you weren't wearing any helmet,I think you just bought a fine.
I think beanie helmets are only slightly better than wearing no helmet at all - these helmets are about 3% as safe as a DOThelmet. In order to protect your head in an accident, a helmet must be fairly thick. The thickness is the room necessary to give your head some stopping distance. Without the thickness, your head stops in almost no time and the forces become too large to survive. However, I strongly dislike helmet laws. I think people should have the right to commit suicide however they wish. So, here's how to beat a helmet law ticket.
From time to time, and over-zealous cop will write a ticket for wearing an "illegal helmet," by which he means these beanie helmets. Many people who have these beanie helmets have a DOT sticker on the helmet. If you don't have such a sticker, I recommend you get one and put it on your helmet, and claim in court that it was on the helmet at the time you were stopped.You should be able to get such a sticker at any chopper accessory shop. Don't bring your helmet to court.
Plead not guilty. Appear in court on your trial date. Be on time. Dress nicely, like you were going to your cousin's wedding. You are on trial, not your helmet, you. Basically you're on trial for not looking right. Don't give them the added evidence of showing up in torn greasy jeans and a dirty shirt. Don't wear any leather, don't wear a vest, and don't wear your colors. If you have long hair, wash it and tie it back. This stuff matters, don't think it doesn't. Don't think that the judge isn't allowed to consider this - he can consider any damned thing he wants, and he will. Don't give them anything for free.
Print out all the following documents, three copies of each, and bring them to court:
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/people/inju...t/fmvss218.htm - the DOT specification.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../1_ovsc_1.html - DOT statement that certification is the manufacturer's responsibility.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27802.htm - the definition of a "helmet" in California.
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d12/vc27803.htm - the California helmet law.
Look at the following documents, if your helmet is shown as "PASS" you're home free.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin...ss218/2182.pdf - 2003 DOT testing results. See if your helmet actually passed.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2002s218.html - 2002 DOT testing results.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2001s218.html - 2001 DOT testing results.
http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/testin.../2000s218.html - 2000 DOT testing results.
An attorney will want a couple hundred bucks to represent you. You have to decide if it's worth the money. If you're a bright guy and can speak well and keep your cool, you can probably do this on your own. If you clam up in public and have trouble talking, or if you tend to get mad and start arguing or yelling, maybe you should get an attorney. Your call. If you get an attorney, show him this document. You can go to your local Harley shop and ask where the local ABATE office is. They might help you. Unlikely, but it's worth a phone call. At your local chopper chop or Harley dealer they might be able to tell you about other people who have gotten this ticket and what they've done.
The cop has to show up to testify - if he doesn't show, you're off. If he does, he has to testify that you were riding a motorcycle, wearing a helmet, and that the helmet "obviously" doesn't meet DOT specs. As soon as he says "obviously," before he can finish the sentence, you object. The basis of your objection is that the officer has not been certified by the court as an expert witness in the field of helmet construction and certification. No matter how the DA tries to ask the cop questions about the construction or certification of your helmet, you object. Don't let him get anything into evidence other than that you were riding a bike, wearing some kind of helmet, and the cop pulled you over for no other reason and wrote you for the helmet.
When the prosecution is done grilling the cop, you ask the judge if the prosecution is done making their case. He'll ask the DA, and then say "yes." You then say, "The prosecution has not shown my helmet. They have offered no expert testimony on what the DOT test is. They have offered no expert testimony on which helmets are DOT compliant. They have offered no expert testimony on which helmets are not DOT compliant. They have offered no expert testimony on whether or not my helmet is DOTcompliant. They have not shown my helmet as evidence, nor have they shown any feature of my helmet that is lacking or sub-standard. I move for dismissal for failure to prosecute." Excellent chance the judge throws out the ticket right there.
If the judge doesn't throw it out, you have to cross examine the cop and testify yourself. When it's your turn to ask the officer questions, you start grilling him on the DOT spec - what is it? Ask if the cop has a copy of the DOT helmet specification with him. He doesn't. Ask if he's ever read the specification. He hasn't. Show the cop the DOT specification.Ask to have it entered into evidence. Give a copy to the judge, and another copy to the DA. Ask the cop if he's ever seen it before. Ask exactly which part of the law your helmet didn't meet. Ask how he determined this. Ask how helmets are tested? what is the testing mechanism? what are the specifications? who tests the helmets? If he tries to answer these questions in any technical fashion, like starts talking about dropping helmets with aluminum heads and accelerometers, ask where he learned this stuff. Ask the cop if he has an engineering degree. Ask if he has a copy of the DOT specifications with him.Basically, your job is to point out that these are highly technical engineering specifications, and the cop is not an engineer- if he was, he wouldn't be a cop. When you're asking the cop these questions, make certain he only answers your immediate question - if he tries to start talking about your helmet, ask the judge to make him stop. The cop will try repeatedly to point out that your helmet is thin, and DOT helmets are thick. Jump on him about this - ask if he measured your helmet's thickness. Ask if he measured his helmet's thickness. Ask exactly how thick a helmet has to be. If he answers, ask how he knows this. There's no DOT rule about how thick a helmet has to be. Ask if thickness is part of the DOT spec (it's not). Ask if liner material is part of the DOT spec (it's not). Ask if he can tell you the precise chemical composition of the "good" liners. Ask if he has your helmet. Ask why he didn't confiscate it for evidence. Ask if he has a picture. Again, don't bring your helmet into the court room, that just makes it available for the prosecution as a piece of evidence. Be certain to ask the cop if you were wearing a helmet.
You testify that your helmet has a DOT sticker, that it was sold to you as a DOT compliant helmet, that neither you nor the cop nor the motorcycle shop owner are experts in DOT helmet testing, that you bought the helmet to comply with the law, and that you believe you are in compliance with the law. Testify that you think your helmet is just as safe and just as thick as any other helmet. You also point out that no evidence has been given that your helmet is not in compliance expect for the spoken opinion of the cop, who is not an expert and not entitled to an opinion on how your helmet would perform in a DOT test.
After that, you're done. The judge will do what he does. Most judges will throw the ticket out, as they don't want to get into a big engineering argument about what is and what is not a DOT helmet. A few will jump on you just 'cause they can.That's it, it's a crap shoot. However, I think the odds are in your favor.
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