jetting
#11
im not sure im really new at this trying to learn! but i know looking at the original dyno sheets im extremely rich i mean off the chart. im getting my scoot back tommorrow and will attach the sheet if you all can help me with this! i will have no baffles plan on getting some this spring hopefully. money is still tight in the furniture world
Post it if you can and I'm sure you'll get plenty of advise.
#12
I can answer that!
Did they do a carb cleaning on it prior to running? Pointless to rejet a clogged carb; a clogged inlet could cause a rich condition assuming the prior owner didn't throw in indiscriminate jets to "get more power". How big is the carb? I imagine since you're running "extremely rich" that what the prior owner meant by a "bore" was change the jets since most HD's run extremely lean and there would be no reason to "bore" unless the piston-to-cylinder spec could not be met (too soon for that on an '05) and I'm not familiar with an XL "big bore kit". The richness is caused by too large of a carb: if it ain't beefed more than you listed, anything other than a 40mm CV (constant velocity) is a waste of money. Big carb doesn't = fast bike and would explain the acceration "lag" the tuner noted. It just throws too much gas and not enough air flow that cannot get burnt by a stock engine into the exhaust. Easy to tell the carb size by looking at the manifold gasket: if it's brown it's a 40, 44, 51mm CV Keihin or a 42, 45, 48(Mikuni)mm SE flatside with special manifold, black is the stock OEM 40mm CV carb using the stock manifold. I think there's an orange one too but I fergit and that one is a HUGE race model if my feeble memory recalls. CV carbs have a round top and the flatside has a kinda "L"-shaped top. If the carb is one of the monsters listed, get a 40mm stock CV carb (about $400 new at dealer, cheaper on-line) and you will notice a difference. The bad news is you'd have to have that adjusted but it shouldn't take 7 runs! Here's what they should be doing for the dyno runs after cleaning the carb:
1) Idle circuit AFR (air/fuel ratio): with bike at operating temperature and no enrichener, AFR reading is obtained to check slow (pilot) jet. Graph reading of 13.2-13.5 should be obtained by use of correct jet selection and adjustment of the idle mixture screw. Then setting correct idle speed. Idle circuit only affects the idling.
2) 4th gear roll-on (GRO) with AFR tuning: Wide open throttle starting at 2,000 RPM to redline of 5,500 RPM for the XL. This checks the main jet circuit, accelerator pump operation, HP, torque, and AFR at various RPM ranges to establish a "baseline" comparison for all the following tests. Graph reading for a carb bike will typically spike extremely lean from the quick on-rush of air, then a slight dip to rich (13-12.7 AFR) then level out at 13.2-13.5 AFR with a relatively smooth line upward in the HP/torque lines which will drop at peak (most obtainable number) HP and torque. The "75 HP" you mentioned is the peak HP from that run.
3) AFR tuning with cruise test: With 30% load engaged on dyno, starting from 2000 RPM, slowly rolling throttle to 4000 RPM (where we ride) without engaging accelerator pump circuit and throwing off the AFR reading with the squirt of gas. Reading for carb bike should be a level AFR reading at 13.2-13.5. Any dips high/low in the line can be adjusted by needle jet swap which maintains main jet operation. HP/torque is not important here as you will only see maybe 7-11 HP and about same for torque for normal cruising! AFR is the important number.
4) Fast acceleration test: this one tests slide response. Do a 4th gear roll-on for baseline in 4th gear and note the "peak horsepower". In 2nd gear, accelerate slowly 1000 RPM past the peak horsepower reading as above and release the throttle to let RPM drift back to the peak horsepower reading, then go wide open throttle to redline at 5,500 RPM. The lines will resemble the 4th GRO plus a line for the 2nd GRO that has a loop in it. If the slide is responding correctly, the second loop reading with line up with the 4th gear roll-on line. If it is above the 4th GRO line, the slide is too fast. If it is below the 4th GRO line, it is too slow. Both are adjusted by diaphram spring selection, either longer or shorter spring.
A 75 HP at 4,500 RPM @ 97 MPH (in fourth gear) with equal or higher torque is good for a stage 1 XL (same HP I'm running) but don't be preoccupied by those numbers: it's the AFR of 13.2-13.5 you want for good overall driveability and HP/torque. They can lean it out for top HP but you're driveability and plug life will be affected plus a bad tank of gas would make it even worse and will only gain a couple HP more or less anyways so it's not worth it. Keep in mind, your "75 HP" is at "best run" and will vary as the bike heats up. Doing numerous runs back-to-back will cause the number to drop: that's why I say HP is good for bragging rights, but AFR and torque make you go fast. You can have a 75 HP and be too lean and a 68 and be just right with the AFR and it will probably run and feel better; the trick is to go for balance. Seven jet changes seems excessive to get the jet selection down but I'm not there doing it so dunno what could be causing this. As far as removing the carb from the bike in 10 minutes, try that on a bike you just rode 97 MPH! That's why he removed the carb vice just "dropping the bowl". On the back pressure question: I run drags because they were cheap. More tunable pipes will run better and they are, guess what, tunable! but you won't see "monster numbers" from the change though but would mostly affect the low-mid range driveability. Open baffles will not harm the bike as long as AFR is correctly set: I don't so much as a pop on decel and good overall driveability with my carb properly tuned with nice color on the plugs to boot! Hope this has helped and good luck with the bike.
1) Idle circuit AFR (air/fuel ratio): with bike at operating temperature and no enrichener, AFR reading is obtained to check slow (pilot) jet. Graph reading of 13.2-13.5 should be obtained by use of correct jet selection and adjustment of the idle mixture screw. Then setting correct idle speed. Idle circuit only affects the idling.
2) 4th gear roll-on (GRO) with AFR tuning: Wide open throttle starting at 2,000 RPM to redline of 5,500 RPM for the XL. This checks the main jet circuit, accelerator pump operation, HP, torque, and AFR at various RPM ranges to establish a "baseline" comparison for all the following tests. Graph reading for a carb bike will typically spike extremely lean from the quick on-rush of air, then a slight dip to rich (13-12.7 AFR) then level out at 13.2-13.5 AFR with a relatively smooth line upward in the HP/torque lines which will drop at peak (most obtainable number) HP and torque. The "75 HP" you mentioned is the peak HP from that run.
3) AFR tuning with cruise test: With 30% load engaged on dyno, starting from 2000 RPM, slowly rolling throttle to 4000 RPM (where we ride) without engaging accelerator pump circuit and throwing off the AFR reading with the squirt of gas. Reading for carb bike should be a level AFR reading at 13.2-13.5. Any dips high/low in the line can be adjusted by needle jet swap which maintains main jet operation. HP/torque is not important here as you will only see maybe 7-11 HP and about same for torque for normal cruising! AFR is the important number.
4) Fast acceleration test: this one tests slide response. Do a 4th gear roll-on for baseline in 4th gear and note the "peak horsepower". In 2nd gear, accelerate slowly 1000 RPM past the peak horsepower reading as above and release the throttle to let RPM drift back to the peak horsepower reading, then go wide open throttle to redline at 5,500 RPM. The lines will resemble the 4th GRO plus a line for the 2nd GRO that has a loop in it. If the slide is responding correctly, the second loop reading with line up with the 4th gear roll-on line. If it is above the 4th GRO line, the slide is too fast. If it is below the 4th GRO line, it is too slow. Both are adjusted by diaphram spring selection, either longer or shorter spring.
A 75 HP at 4,500 RPM @ 97 MPH (in fourth gear) with equal or higher torque is good for a stage 1 XL (same HP I'm running) but don't be preoccupied by those numbers: it's the AFR of 13.2-13.5 you want for good overall driveability and HP/torque. They can lean it out for top HP but you're driveability and plug life will be affected plus a bad tank of gas would make it even worse and will only gain a couple HP more or less anyways so it's not worth it. Keep in mind, your "75 HP" is at "best run" and will vary as the bike heats up. Doing numerous runs back-to-back will cause the number to drop: that's why I say HP is good for bragging rights, but AFR and torque make you go fast. You can have a 75 HP and be too lean and a 68 and be just right with the AFR and it will probably run and feel better; the trick is to go for balance. Seven jet changes seems excessive to get the jet selection down but I'm not there doing it so dunno what could be causing this. As far as removing the carb from the bike in 10 minutes, try that on a bike you just rode 97 MPH! That's why he removed the carb vice just "dropping the bowl". On the back pressure question: I run drags because they were cheap. More tunable pipes will run better and they are, guess what, tunable! but you won't see "monster numbers" from the change though but would mostly affect the low-mid range driveability. Open baffles will not harm the bike as long as AFR is correctly set: I don't so much as a pop on decel and good overall driveability with my carb properly tuned with nice color on the plugs to boot! Hope this has helped and good luck with the bike.
#14
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#15
I tried 2-3 different jets and I just pulled the carb and let it hang upside down.I didn't ever remove the throttle cables or the choke.It is pretty easy.The last time I did it,it only took 30 minutes.
#17
Rich
Did they do a cruise test? Like to see that data since the roll-on is wide open throttle while the cruise is the "normal" driving mode but probably rich but not as bad. Big dips in the AFR line that also affects the HP/T! I'd still go with the OEM CV carb and manifold as best overall stk./Stage 1 application, dyno tune again, and put the ones on now in storage or put a larger cam and heads on to promote better air flow (around $1200-1500 for the parts exc. gaskets). You didn't mention the brand of the installed carb but most of the bigguns have their own special jet sizes so can't get all that richness out. If you keep that one on you're going to have to watch & clean the plugs frequently and you'll be building excessive carbon in the cylinder and valves which could cause you problems later on. What did they hit you with on the bill? PS: check all your fasteners at engine, AC, and exhaust pipes! I shook the crap out of my XL running the dyno on it (had my AC nuts sitting inside my filter) and a few loose exhaust mounts!
#18
they charged me 350. i have the old carb here looks brand new. He bought the bike at yucca valley harley davidson. i have called them trying to find out what all they did. the man i talked to "which was extremely nice" said they only keep it in the computer for 3yrs and he would try to dig it up and would call my cell if he found anything. My friend bought it there and once he got out of the navy had it shipped here lost all the paper work including manuals but kept all the part "shocks, seat, pipes, carb etc.. only drove it 1200miles until i bought it in may. im kinda stumped on what to do.
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