Cool video. One of my MSF instructors was a retired motorcycle cop. He could do the SMALL box (double u-turn) on his Ultra, scraping the floorboards the entire time. Simply amazing to see in person, I must say ...

 

This has been the most informative thread I have read since I have been here.
That's so kewlll.

 

That is correct, Mandog. Entry speed should be modest, and accelerating through the turn provides stability and additional grip on the roadway.

Nope. Dead wrong. Slowing before a turn and accelerateing through it has nothing whatsover to do with countersteering or the "gyroscope effect", and if any MSF Instructor believes so, then he ought to be fired. Accelerating through a turn does provide additional stability, and friction on the road. Countersteering refers to the bikes behavior when the handlebar is rotated opposite the desired direction of the turn, and works however the turn is negotiated, as long as it is above 10 mph or so. As a matter of fact, it is impossible to steer a bike above that critical speed without countersteering. Try it yourself. Ride in a straight line at 15 to 20 miles per hour, and try to turn right by turning the handlebars to the right. You will certainly lean left and turn left--every time.

Mostly wrong and partially right. If you brake in a turn, and if while doing so you abruptly grab the front brake, you will certainly go down. No question about it. However, it is possible for an accomplished rider to brake in a turn, even with the front wheel and not go down, as long as it is done smooooothly and gradually. It is good advice for almost everybody to not apply the front brakes in a turn, because it is risky riding, and the line between going down and staying up is very fine.

However, in slow riding, and that is what Bryan was talking about, applying partial rear brake while slipping the clutch and holding rpms up (maybe twice idle speed) is the accepted technique for making sharp, tight and well executed turns on a motorcycle. I am a little surprised that someone as experienced as Mandog would not know this.

Out of respect for the others on the forum, I won't quote the remainder of MD's post.

 

Thank you!

 

The #1 reason a Sporty is considered the Bike to have for riding the Twisties is low end torque. It's actually to top heavy to handle well, and the ground clearance is adequate at best, a RK has as much ground clearance and is better balanced than a Sporty. All of that isn't or doesn't have a thing to do with why the Sporty is the bike for the twisty country or Mountain roads, it's that low end torque.

 

well looks like mandog has gotten edumacated in the last year or so since his
opinion is exactly opposite of what it was a year ago...you know MD when there was no way in hell you could get an ultra or a king to turn with a sporty and I was a retard for suggesting that it would.
you musta learned to ride that thing over the summer.

 

What 128auto said. I was wondering when someone would mention the short wheelbase on a Sportster. Parking lot speed turns are a lot different from twisties turns. In the twisties you countersteer...in a parking lot your steer in the direction you want to go and use your body to counterbalance the bike.

Note in those police videos their upper torso is vertical, although the bike frame itself is leaned over scraping pavement. That's counterbalancing.

Countersteering is at speeds over 10-15 mph, in which the inside handlebar is pushed in order to make the curve. This gets the bike leaned to make the curve. Also, if the body is also leaned over in the direction of the curve, the bike doesn't have to lean as far to make the curve. Steering one-handed brings this physics lesson to light pretty quickly.

Also, hard braking, or braking on a slick surface during a turn is not a good idea. But trail braking is done all the time, and it can be extremely useful. Trail braking is using the rear brake to modulate speed in a turn or curve. It should be done lightly. Using the front brake in a curve is generally a no-no. The danger of trail braking in a curve is that if the rear tire starts skidding then regains traction, a high side is likely to occur. Not a good proposition for the rider to be literally catapaulted off the bike head first into terra firma. If the bike does NOT regain traction on a trail brake skid, a lowside will occur. Still not a good proposition, especially in traffic.

Bottom line for trail braking if it is done right, it can be rewarding. Done wrong can EASILY result in a crash. This is why the MSF frowns upon braking in turns. Most normal riding doesn't require it...except in some parking lot manuevers.

Teek

 

I come from road racing background ....My style of riding is trail brake using the front brakes to bleed speed off and help me set up for corners .. now I am not telling anyone to go into a corner and grab a hand-full of front brakes but used correctly your front brakes can be your friend.

 

All the advice is good (Safety Course, Twist of the wrisy). Nobody has talked about suspension settings, tire compounds, air pressure. My Sporty points down the road real well. It has compression and rebound settings front and rear, holds a line in a turn really well. I'm happy with my set up.

I read an article once that said many accidents could be avoided if riders trusted their tires to hold a turn more. Some bikes lean over easy initially and then it is hard to push them over farther. My daily driver is a tricked '00 ZRX1100 (54,000 mi), so while I am conservative, I do have a comparison.

But please, the road is not the track. You never know what's around the corner. After a rain is always dangerous because of sand and debris washed onto the road. In my case, I have encountered Brahma bulls aroud the turn on the road, been run off by a truck coming the other way, et al.

Ride safe.

 

Some good points !I should state that my road racing back ground was on closed circuit race tracks.and I agree the street is no place to race. Don't laugh but I could not get my cv carb tuned to the point where I was happy , so I went with a mikuni 42 carb ,people always ask me what I like best about the mikuni and I tell them the bike handles better. I have so much better throttle control with the mikuni It lets me be smoother with the throttle in the corners as not to upset the suspension