Wow, that's not good news. It's really weird how metal ended up past the filter into the gallery. Not sure how that could even happen. Something has to be causing it.

You might call Moreland Choppers down here in Solana Beach. Talk to Ben, he's a good guy. 858-755-5044. Aren't you in San Clemente, only about 45 minutes north of Solana Beach? My GF Brooke has them work on her bike, I just use them for tires so far, but I would trust them with something I couldn't tackle myself. I bet they would not be afraid to do the work.

John

 

It's not that he was afraid to fix it so much as he couldn't guarantee the work without doing a total rebuild which would cost so much it wouldn't be worth it. I have one more theory before I start seriously considering sending out to Hammer. The casting in the OEM rocker boxes is really rough and there is a part of excess metal near the rocker arm that looks like it is missing a chunk possibly from the rocker hitting it or something when I installed them and that is what the debris reminded me of when I saw it. So there is the possibility that a little chunk of cast aluminum made its way down the pushrod tubes and when I changed the oil and removed the check valve it got vacuumed out the oil passage in the lifter bore.

On Dans recommendation I reversed the order of the lifters to see if the noise moves and I swear it sounded like the front lifter making noise when I listened to it today with the scope. The front lifter was the back lifter so it's possible the lifter, even though it is pretty much new, got debris pushed into it and is now also toast. The only way to know is to replace the lifters again. I ordered a pair of OEM lifters (they're the cheapest option) and am going to give it one more shot and see what happens. I am also going to take a dremel to the rocker boxes and clean up all the excess aluminum from the casting. Then I'll change the oil again and look for any debris. That's the hail mary pass. After that I am guessing it is something that is in the bottom end or it's something I am missing that I may never figure out. Sometimes it's best to get a second set of eyes on it. I may just have tunnel vision and can't see it.

Also, sending it to Dan will be cheaper than someone local doing it based on the quote he gave me.

 

Swapping the lifters was a great idea, Hammer Dan would be my go to for the engine. I think it’s a reasonable theory on the rocker box flaking. The factory lifters aren’t too shabby, I run them on my 560 cam and they work fine.

Man that’s a lot of work and gaskets to fiddle with, on the bright side you’ll be an expert at pushrod tube O-ring and rocker installation.

Always a bummer when taking the correct steps, putting in the time and winding up circling back to where you started. Been there many, many times. Then I remember the super good vibes of cruising on your own work in the sunshine far outweighs the bummer.

sunshine is coming.

 

[QUOTE=John Harper;21564131]Any particular reason for using VR1? I've read the additive package is not the greatest for street use. It has more ZDDP, helpful for flat tappet motors, but we have roller tappets. Also it's not for wet clutches, so using it in the primary is out if you need it in a pinch.

I was looking for conventional oil for new cylinder breakin. Autozone had it the VR1 on sale for $5 a quart, and IMO it's the best conventional oil at dealing with heat and maintaining viscosity. It will be swapped at 600 miles to full synthetic, been getting decent prices on Mobil 1 syn. Always running formula+ in the primary.

 

Thanks for the positive vibes. Luckily, you can reuse the metal gaskets many times. I don't reuse the pushrod tube gaskets though but for some reason I had aquired 4 sets over the last year so I am down to my last spare set.

 

So another update. I had straight 50 weight oil in the bike as Dan recommended going that route to see if that made a difference. Apparently the thicker oil can help if the lifter bores are worn. That stuff is pretty thick compared to the 20/50 I have to say. I couldn't warm up the bike much to change the oil and that stuff came out slow like molasses. I had some Mobil 1 synthetic v-twin sitting around and swapped that in and It seemed to make a big difference in the idle and quieted the top end noise quite a bit. Listening with a scope now it is definitely the front lifter which is making noise. The others seem pretty quiet actually. It runs like crap. That I can say with certainty.

 

I've completely read this post because i have nothing to do currently and I have a off the wall (possibly stupid) suggestion. You said you found aluminum in the cam chest. Are your cam bushings in good shape, and if they weren't, could the cams possibly be taking chunks of aluminum off?

Only thing I could think of since you have tried almost EVERYTHING else. I hope you figure it man!

 

That is definitely not a stupid suggestion and one I have revisited a couple times. They all seem fine. No scoring, none are loose in the case or cover. This next go around I am going to check this again by pushing on the cam lobes through the lifter ports and just confirm there is no movement in any of them from wear. I am also going to double check the rocker clearances and make sure something somehow didn't change there and I am out of the +/- .005 spec. I am out of ideas at the moment, even Dan at Hammer said it was an odd situation for sure. If new lifters don't do it I think I will just have to accept that I am chasing my tail and the engine needs to be completely torn down to start from square one. It's got to be something right?

 

The noise followed the lifter, I was thinking bushings too or cam cover clearance but damn it tracked the lifter. Hoping the 2E lifter caught a piece and when you replace it all good. Factory lifters land yet?

Man this is a tough snag, only thing I’m sure about is uncertainty.

At worst case a rebuild or grab a cheap 883 and cannibalize, either way you’ll have a ton of experience and learning behind you.

 

I think I am going to pull the trigger on a used 883 motor. No sense spending 2x on the 1200 when it will get a Hammer 1275 kit and heads ported anyway. Even if I can get my engine running again with the new lifters I think I would like to have a spare waiting in the wings as the 2000-2003 motors (that aren't crash damaged) are becoming harder to come by. If new lifters don't do it I'll just scrap the bottom end (or rebuild it and store it away) and sell off the heads and cylinders. I'm already going to sell the S&S rocker boxes as they are too close to the battery, but they'd be perfect for a hardtail setup. I'll use everything from my primary as it's all new and swap cams as well as mine are new N2s. I feel a little better now that I have a path forward that won't be too expensive, just more work. I built this bike from the ground up exactly as I wanted it and I'm not gonna let some engine gremlin spoil my good time. All is not lost.