Hesitation at low speed
#11
08-17-2020, 08:58 PM
Road Captain
Join Date: Jan 2020
Location: Where the spirit meets the road
Posts: 690
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Pyros9 (08-17-2020)
#13
08-18-2020, 08:31 AM
Road Warrior
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Pyros9 (08-18-2020)
#15
08-18-2020, 01:10 PM
Tourer
The engine should be in a very comfortable RPM range when riding in second gear in the upper 20's. It definitely shouldn't be lugging. As I recall, the manual for my '07 says to shift from second to third at 25mph. The Sportsters have a higher revving motor than the larger Harley's. You start getting a glimpse into that when hanging onto second gear for 5-10 mph beyond the factory recommended shift points but it's still not screaming.
I am a bit hesitant to agree with the many posters that say to go directly to a tuner to solve your problems. It may only mask an existing problem or become what the next mechanic blames for that problem. I would recommend taking a look at everything else that you can while you save for that tuner.
Have you test ridden some other XL1200's and under the same conditions and verified that this isn't a problem with your bike but just they way Sportsters ride? At lower speeds and RPMS than you cite, the Sportsters can have a somewhat uneven power delivery due to the uneven firing of the v-twin engine. Apache Snow is quite correct to solve that by revving the engine and slipping the clutch as needed. Once the speed is out of the teens or low twenties, though, it's turning moderate RPM's masking that unevenness and it should be a decent ride. Maybe you are still noticing that unevenness at higher speeds, especially if you are a new rider or recently returned after being away from it for a while. If your previous riding experience wasn't v-twins, you may be expecting the smoothness of a parallel twin and not getting that.
"Flashing the ECM" is the electronic fuel injection equivalent of changing jets in the carburetor to get the correct fuel/air mixture. H-D sends them out of the factory as lean as they can and still run. Changing to less restrictive exhausts and intakes can lean out the mixture even more. The V&H Fuel Pack 3 and Dyno Jet Power Vision tuners reprogram the ECM (black box) for proper performance instead of emissions compliance. The EPA and state of California really don't like that, thus the comment that it is technically 'illegal'. The main enforcement mechanism for this is a consent decree H-D entered into with the EPA. They agreed to void power train warranties on model year 2017 and later bikes found to have been tuned with anything other than the H-D Screaming Eagle tuners. Some techs and dealerships make a point of being less observant than others as to whether the bike has previously been tuned.
Everybody that I have talked to that has flashed the ECM of a stock bike tells me that it definitely improves the rideability of the bike enough to be worth doing. It doesn't really unleash the performance of the bike appreciably until you have freely flowing intake and exhaust. Then you can find quite a bit of horsepower hiding in that engine.
I am a bit hesitant to agree with the many posters that say to go directly to a tuner to solve your problems. It may only mask an existing problem or become what the next mechanic blames for that problem. I would recommend taking a look at everything else that you can while you save for that tuner.
Have you test ridden some other XL1200's and under the same conditions and verified that this isn't a problem with your bike but just they way Sportsters ride? At lower speeds and RPMS than you cite, the Sportsters can have a somewhat uneven power delivery due to the uneven firing of the v-twin engine. Apache Snow is quite correct to solve that by revving the engine and slipping the clutch as needed. Once the speed is out of the teens or low twenties, though, it's turning moderate RPM's masking that unevenness and it should be a decent ride. Maybe you are still noticing that unevenness at higher speeds, especially if you are a new rider or recently returned after being away from it for a while. If your previous riding experience wasn't v-twins, you may be expecting the smoothness of a parallel twin and not getting that.
"Flashing the ECM" is the electronic fuel injection equivalent of changing jets in the carburetor to get the correct fuel/air mixture. H-D sends them out of the factory as lean as they can and still run. Changing to less restrictive exhausts and intakes can lean out the mixture even more. The V&H Fuel Pack 3 and Dyno Jet Power Vision tuners reprogram the ECM (black box) for proper performance instead of emissions compliance. The EPA and state of California really don't like that, thus the comment that it is technically 'illegal'. The main enforcement mechanism for this is a consent decree H-D entered into with the EPA. They agreed to void power train warranties on model year 2017 and later bikes found to have been tuned with anything other than the H-D Screaming Eagle tuners. Some techs and dealerships make a point of being less observant than others as to whether the bike has previously been tuned.
Everybody that I have talked to that has flashed the ECM of a stock bike tells me that it definitely improves the rideability of the bike enough to be worth doing. It doesn't really unleash the performance of the bike appreciably until you have freely flowing intake and exhaust. Then you can find quite a bit of horsepower hiding in that engine.
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Pyros9 (08-18-2020)
#16
08-18-2020, 05:34 PM
Thank you!
Last edited by Pyros9; 08-18-2020 at 05:39 PM.
#17
08-18-2020, 05:45 PM
The engine should be in a very comfortable RPM range when riding in second gear in the upper 20's. It definitely shouldn't be lugging. As I recall, the manual for my '07 says to shift from second to third at 25mph. The Sportsters have a higher revving motor than the larger Harley's. You start getting a glimpse into that when hanging onto second gear for 5-10 mph beyond the factory recommended shift points but it's still not screaming.
I am a bit hesitant to agree with the many posters that say to go directly to a tuner to solve your problems. It may only mask an existing problem or become what the next mechanic blames for that problem. I would recommend taking a look at everything else that you can while you save for that tuner.
Have you test ridden some other XL1200's and under the same conditions and verified that this isn't a problem with your bike but just they way Sportsters ride? At lower speeds and RPMS than you cite, the Sportsters can have a somewhat uneven power delivery due to the uneven firing of the v-twin engine. Apache Snow is quite correct to solve that by revving the engine and slipping the clutch as needed. Once the speed is out of the teens or low twenties, though, it's turning moderate RPM's masking that unevenness and it should be a decent ride. Maybe you are still noticing that unevenness at higher speeds, especially if you are a new rider or recently returned after being away from it for a while. If your previous riding experience wasn't v-twins, you may be expecting the smoothness of a parallel twin and not getting that.
"Flashing the ECM" is the electronic fuel injection equivalent of changing jets in the carburetor to get the correct fuel/air mixture. H-D sends them out of the factory as lean as they can and still run. Changing to less restrictive exhausts and intakes can lean out the mixture even more. The V&H Fuel Pack 3 and Dyno Jet Power Vision tuners reprogram the ECM (black box) for proper performance instead of emissions compliance. The EPA and state of California really don't like that, thus the comment that it is technically 'illegal'. The main enforcement mechanism for this is a consent decree H-D entered into with the EPA. They agreed to void power train warranties on model year 2017 and later bikes found to have been tuned with anything other than the H-D Screaming Eagle tuners. Some techs and dealerships make a point of being less observant than others as to whether the bike has previously been tuned.
Everybody that I have talked to that has flashed the ECM of a stock bike tells me that it definitely improves the rideability of the bike enough to be worth doing. It doesn't really unleash the performance of the bike appreciably until you have freely flowing intake and exhaust. Then you can find quite a bit of horsepower hiding in that engine.
I am a bit hesitant to agree with the many posters that say to go directly to a tuner to solve your problems. It may only mask an existing problem or become what the next mechanic blames for that problem. I would recommend taking a look at everything else that you can while you save for that tuner.
Have you test ridden some other XL1200's and under the same conditions and verified that this isn't a problem with your bike but just they way Sportsters ride? At lower speeds and RPMS than you cite, the Sportsters can have a somewhat uneven power delivery due to the uneven firing of the v-twin engine. Apache Snow is quite correct to solve that by revving the engine and slipping the clutch as needed. Once the speed is out of the teens or low twenties, though, it's turning moderate RPM's masking that unevenness and it should be a decent ride. Maybe you are still noticing that unevenness at higher speeds, especially if you are a new rider or recently returned after being away from it for a while. If your previous riding experience wasn't v-twins, you may be expecting the smoothness of a parallel twin and not getting that.
"Flashing the ECM" is the electronic fuel injection equivalent of changing jets in the carburetor to get the correct fuel/air mixture. H-D sends them out of the factory as lean as they can and still run. Changing to less restrictive exhausts and intakes can lean out the mixture even more. The V&H Fuel Pack 3 and Dyno Jet Power Vision tuners reprogram the ECM (black box) for proper performance instead of emissions compliance. The EPA and state of California really don't like that, thus the comment that it is technically 'illegal'. The main enforcement mechanism for this is a consent decree H-D entered into with the EPA. They agreed to void power train warranties on model year 2017 and later bikes found to have been tuned with anything other than the H-D Screaming Eagle tuners. Some techs and dealerships make a point of being less observant than others as to whether the bike has previously been tuned.
Everybody that I have talked to that has flashed the ECM of a stock bike tells me that it definitely improves the rideability of the bike enough to be worth doing. It doesn't really unleash the performance of the bike appreciably until you have freely flowing intake and exhaust. Then you can find quite a bit of horsepower hiding in that engine.
#18
08-18-2020, 07:28 PM
Seasoned HDF Member
The following 2 users liked this post by firehawk6:
JRider1807 (08-26-2020),
Pyros9 (08-18-2020)
#19
08-19-2020, 02:13 PM
Which MAP?
Or just use the generic (stock pipes) one here?
Last edited by Pyros9; 08-19-2020 at 02:41 PM.
#20
08-19-2020, 02:57 PM
Tourer
Having done this a couple of times I have to say it's VERY easy to pick the correct map if your bike is stock or has stage 1 upgrades are either V&H or Screamin Eagle. If you somehow pick an exhaust or intake that isn't in their database you can call V&H customer support and they will suggest a map to use.
The worst case scenario is if you pick a bad map. Just do a couple of autotuned sessions during which the bike runs like crap. After the FP3 collects enough information that you can flash the map again it all comes out right.
The worst case scenario is if you pick a bad map. Just do a couple of autotuned sessions during which the bike runs like crap. After the FP3 collects enough information that you can flash the map again it all comes out right.
The following users liked this post:
Pyros9 (08-19-2020)