Electrical Engineering...

But in recent years they have been making me do more management. So IOW's I'm becoming worthless.

Not to say that I'm an expert by any stretch. I studied controls in college, but haven't worked in that arena professionally. I pick up bits and pieces reading here and there. My prior education helps facilitate my understanding.

So take my opinion for what it's worth... which is probably about 2 cents.

 

I figured electrical engineering. Management has its perks usually more cash and less people you gotta take **** from.

 

running open loop and rich is fine if u don't have the catalytic converters in your pipes... and don't care for the eventual smell of gas.

 

That seems like a fair summation.

Opinions vary on that. As I noted before, your option #1 produced poor results for me (surging etc.). Why that was - as noted - there are various theories, to include that it's simply a symptom of running too lean.

Not sure I recollect what I was averaging before I started playing with my tune, but since I've been running the TT enabled tune I got from FM, my temperature average is the same as yours - 370 to 380.

Careful here. Those temperatures in the response curve I posted are what is seen by the sensor (in Celsius), not the head temperature you're reading via the PV (which would be in Fahrenheit).

 

Ahhh. Another "DUH" moment. I was thinking them temps was was high for engine temps.

 

Now option #2.

Can't remember if I mentioned it before, but I played around with this option before I actually installed the Target Tune. Basically I took the TT enabled tune file and updated it with the VE's that I obtained by calibrating with PV auto tune (again a misnomer). The important thing with this option is that you have well calibrated VE's. My results were good. If I didn't have a TT, I might be inclined to go this route. However, some of the advantages of running closed loop with O2 sensors are lost. Not sure I would target 14.3 when cruising. If you noted my TT enable tune, it targets 14.0 during cruise. I still get very good MPG and that AFR gives good room for error (if running open loop).

I'm not really a big fan of option #3 for reasons I've already mentioned. However, as noted earlier in this thread, HD's newer strategies (I believe found in 2014 and beyond) increased the closed loop range to 14.2. They changed from 18mm to 12mm narrow bands. Don't know if there is some difference between them that allowed HD to increase the usable range (doubt it, but what do I know?). If not, it would seem that they are also using ~700mV as a set/target voltage in parts of their AFR table (with the same issues in play that I've mentioned). Many factors could make this doable. Factors that I don't have direct knowledge of.

Other things I'm not a fan of... Trying to manually create tables (AFR/Spark/etc) by SWAG's or other means. I took the TT enabled tune file (with the AFR/Spark/tables therein) and went with it (it was created on a dyno on a motor that is the same as mine - meeting the "close enough" threshold). The only things that got changed in it were the VE's tables, because I had a device that I could use to measure and calibrate them with (PV). Trying to create or improve the other tables without an measuring device is flying blind. You don't know if you are making things better, worse, getting optimal results, or leaving performance on the table. If I wanted to manipulate the other tables, I would take it to a competent dyno tuner and have it done.

 

I was thinking of that I downloaded some tunes from fuel moto and copied my VE tables to them. Just playing around. I am running pretty good now. Gonna do some AT tomorrow I'm off. Then taking a long ride next weekend (my 3 day weekend I work labor day). Im not going to run with my PV gauges just going to enjoy the ride. But I will get a good idea how I like it. My wife's butt dyno is pretty good she had no idea what I was doing but she asked me what I did cause it seemed to be running smoother and she also said it sounded meaner. Go figure

 

figured...the dealership service department in my area closed for two weeks for re-certification training. They brought in two engineers from Harley to facilitate the training. I guess being an engineer has its perks.

I am a retired CFO and very analytical but that does squat for my mechanical aptitude.....and that is why is use my Butt (dyno) to assess my tune...LOL.

Thanks for sharing your knowledge....

 

The 2014+ tunes I have seen have a closed loop range of 14.2 - 15.0. The 2014 + models have heated O2 sensors.

 

Hmmm. Not sure what to make of this. Must be other tables to make adjustments.
Sure is different in these areas.


08 stock tune strategy 171