2000 & up front wheel sealed ball bearing spacer?
#11
10-24-2016, 08:34 PM
Totally get the design, now, Including the clamping force affect.
In reality must be difficult to drive the right bearing either with a hammer or press, so the tube spacer & both bearings have zero end clearance , but no contact pressure.
Bearings are inserted in small increments because of STICTION type friction, so some contact force is inevitable.
The tube spacer must be centered using the axle, at least sufficient to install the axle through both bearings.
Measured the ID of the nominal 3/4" tube spacer which is ~ .020" oversize.
Maybe the taper on the axle helps align the tube spacer with axle upon installation, even though there maybe significant contact pressure between the tube spacer & bearings.
It is impossible to center the spacer, so here is a heavy steel cylinder rotating eccentric to the axial centerline.
The axle must be greased because chances are the spacer contacts the axle along the full length of the spacer creating rotational drag.
Believe a better method would to totally seat both bearings against the hub shoulder and use a castle nut & cotter pin with minimum clamping force to minimize preload on the ball bearings
and eliminate the tube spacer. A cap with set screw could be placed over the ugly castle nut. No grease required on the axle.
In reality must be difficult to drive the right bearing either with a hammer or press, so the tube spacer & both bearings have zero end clearance , but no contact pressure.
Bearings are inserted in small increments because of STICTION type friction, so some contact force is inevitable.
The tube spacer must be centered using the axle, at least sufficient to install the axle through both bearings.
Measured the ID of the nominal 3/4" tube spacer which is ~ .020" oversize.
Maybe the taper on the axle helps align the tube spacer with axle upon installation, even though there maybe significant contact pressure between the tube spacer & bearings.
It is impossible to center the spacer, so here is a heavy steel cylinder rotating eccentric to the axial centerline.
The axle must be greased because chances are the spacer contacts the axle along the full length of the spacer creating rotational drag.
Believe a better method would to totally seat both bearings against the hub shoulder and use a castle nut & cotter pin with minimum clamping force to minimize preload on the ball bearings
and eliminate the tube spacer. A cap with set screw could be placed over the ugly castle nut. No grease required on the axle.
#12
10-24-2016, 09:36 PM
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Need a little patience installing the second bearing till the end play of the spacer is gone, but you don't put pressure on it. I do it by feel, till there's a slight drag on moving the spacer around, but yet I can still center it with a finger.
If you don't have that center spacer, the second bearing, not seated to the hub shoulder, could "walk in" to the shoulder under riding stresses, and then your axle nut could end up with a few thousandths play from even touching the fork - or another way of looking at it, the hub would have that play between the forks. I don't think you'd like the sensation you'd get from the forks being able to flex apart even that little bit on hard corners - and if the cotter pin eventually broke from the loose nut working against it, you'd lose the nut, and then the axle if you didn't notice real quick.
Even if the bearings were fully seated in the hub - and they aren't on a Harley - when you lean you'd be putting pressure against the unsupported inside race of one bearing, and on the other bearing leaning the other way. With a little sideways wear of the inside race, you'd get measurable wheel sideways play between the forks. That kind of play can lead to interesting tank slappers. Hope I'm explaining this well enough without diagrams.
Axle rubbing on spacer - I've never seen evidence of that, though I have seen spacers rusted to the axle. The inner races don't spin with the wheel (which race is so tight in the hub? The outer), so the axle and spacer just sit together without relative movement. And that's why I liberally grease or anti seize (tried both, both work fine) my axles, so there won't be any rust in there, have had to hammer out several axles, and sometimes it ruins them. It's a real good idea to grease those axles with the first tire change, because the manufacturers don't do it, as if they expect we'll store these bikes in a low humidity environment and never get them wet. Same for a lot of new wheel bearings, poorly lubed from the factory, good idea to check new ones (pop a seal) before installing.
If you don't have that center spacer, the second bearing, not seated to the hub shoulder, could "walk in" to the shoulder under riding stresses, and then your axle nut could end up with a few thousandths play from even touching the fork - or another way of looking at it, the hub would have that play between the forks. I don't think you'd like the sensation you'd get from the forks being able to flex apart even that little bit on hard corners - and if the cotter pin eventually broke from the loose nut working against it, you'd lose the nut, and then the axle if you didn't notice real quick.
Even if the bearings were fully seated in the hub - and they aren't on a Harley - when you lean you'd be putting pressure against the unsupported inside race of one bearing, and on the other bearing leaning the other way. With a little sideways wear of the inside race, you'd get measurable wheel sideways play between the forks. That kind of play can lead to interesting tank slappers. Hope I'm explaining this well enough without diagrams.
Axle rubbing on spacer - I've never seen evidence of that, though I have seen spacers rusted to the axle. The inner races don't spin with the wheel (which race is so tight in the hub? The outer), so the axle and spacer just sit together without relative movement. And that's why I liberally grease or anti seize (tried both, both work fine) my axles, so there won't be any rust in there, have had to hammer out several axles, and sometimes it ruins them. It's a real good idea to grease those axles with the first tire change, because the manufacturers don't do it, as if they expect we'll store these bikes in a low humidity environment and never get them wet. Same for a lot of new wheel bearings, poorly lubed from the factory, good idea to check new ones (pop a seal) before installing.
#13
10-24-2016, 11:52 PM
Question. I swapped out a rear laced 2012 nightster wheel for a 2000 to 2005 cast 13 spoke that had 3/4 axle and bearings. I drilled out the wheel and used the 25mm bearing spacer from the nightster wheel and new 25mm bearings. I don't need a spacer for this swap do I ? I'm assuming the stack will be the same just in a different hub? I haven't mounted the wheel yet because I'm waiting for the rotor just curious before I install the wheel.
Thanks
Thanks
#14
10-25-2016, 03:08 AM
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Need a little patience installing the second bearing till the end play of the spacer is gone, but you don't put pressure on it. I do it by feel, till there's a slight drag on moving the spacer around, but yet I can still center it with a finger.
If you don't have that center spacer, the second bearing, not seated to the hub shoulder, could "walk in" to the shoulder under riding stresses, and then your axle nut could end up with a few thousandths play from even touching the fork - or another way of looking at it, the hub would have that play between the forks. I don't think you'd like the sensation you'd get from the forks being able to flex apart even that little bit on hard corners - and if the cotter pin eventually broke from the loose nut working against it, you'd lose the nut, and then the axle if you didn't notice real quick.
Even if the bearings were fully seated in the hub - and they aren't on a Harley - when you lean you'd be putting pressure against the unsupported inside race of one bearing, and on the other bearing leaning the other way. With a little sideways wear of the inside race, you'd get measurable wheel sideways play between the forks. That kind of play can lead to interesting tank slappers. Hope I'm explaining this well enough without diagrams.
Axle rubbing on spacer - I've never seen evidence of that, though I have seen spacers rusted to the axle. The inner races don't spin with the wheel (which race is so tight in the hub? The outer), so the axle and spacer just sit together without relative movement. And that's why I liberally grease or anti seize (tried both, both work fine) my axles, so there won't be any rust in there, have had to hammer out several axles, and sometimes it ruins them. It's a real good idea to grease those axles with the first tire change, because the manufacturers don't do it, as if they expect we'll store these bikes in a low humidity environment and never get them wet. Same for a lot of new wheel bearings, poorly lubed from the factory, good idea to check new ones (pop a seal) before installing.
If you don't have that center spacer, the second bearing, not seated to the hub shoulder, could "walk in" to the shoulder under riding stresses, and then your axle nut could end up with a few thousandths play from even touching the fork - or another way of looking at it, the hub would have that play between the forks. I don't think you'd like the sensation you'd get from the forks being able to flex apart even that little bit on hard corners - and if the cotter pin eventually broke from the loose nut working against it, you'd lose the nut, and then the axle if you didn't notice real quick.
Even if the bearings were fully seated in the hub - and they aren't on a Harley - when you lean you'd be putting pressure against the unsupported inside race of one bearing, and on the other bearing leaning the other way. With a little sideways wear of the inside race, you'd get measurable wheel sideways play between the forks. That kind of play can lead to interesting tank slappers. Hope I'm explaining this well enough without diagrams.
Axle rubbing on spacer - I've never seen evidence of that, though I have seen spacers rusted to the axle. The inner races don't spin with the wheel (which race is so tight in the hub? The outer), so the axle and spacer just sit together without relative movement. And that's why I liberally grease or anti seize (tried both, both work fine) my axles, so there won't be any rust in there, have had to hammer out several axles, and sometimes it ruins them. It's a real good idea to grease those axles with the first tire change, because the manufacturers don't do it, as if they expect we'll store these bikes in a low humidity environment and never get them wet. Same for a lot of new wheel bearings, poorly lubed from the factory, good idea to check new ones (pop a seal) before installing.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15614110&postcrount=577
Last edited by cvaria; 10-25-2016 at 03:49 AM.
#15
10-25-2016, 07:12 AM
Mold
Totally agree with your second paragraph argument, if not using the tube spacer.
The tube spacer stabilizes both bearings, so the bearings and spacer act as a single solid part with clamping force applied from the axle nut.
However, do not agree with you third paragraph argument against seating both ball bearings to the hub shoulder , no shims or using shims on backward retrofit, 25mm in 2000-2007 hub
Do not believe the bearing would wear , causing end play.
It is possible that the cast aluminum hub bearing recess could egg out from contact pressure from the bearing outer race from side load.
Totally agree with your second paragraph argument, if not using the tube spacer.
The tube spacer stabilizes both bearings, so the bearings and spacer act as a single solid part with clamping force applied from the axle nut.
However, do not agree with you third paragraph argument against seating both ball bearings to the hub shoulder , no shims or using shims on backward retrofit, 25mm in 2000-2007 hub
Do not believe the bearing would wear , causing end play.
It is possible that the cast aluminum hub bearing recess could egg out from contact pressure from the bearing outer race from side load.
#16
10-25-2016, 08:09 AM
For what it is worth the tube spacer for the 2008 & up front wheel, 25mms seal ball ball wheel bearing is 6.2mm longer than the
tube spacer for the 2000-2007, front wheel 3/4" bore deep groove sealed ball bearing tube spacer.
A 1" diameter drill easily clears the 25mm tube spacer.
tube spacer for the 2000-2007, front wheel 3/4" bore deep groove sealed ball bearing tube spacer.
A 1" diameter drill easily clears the 25mm tube spacer.
Last edited by Almond farmer; 10-26-2016 at 10:02 PM.
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