If the rings never seat then it's because of one or two things:

1) The oil in the bike is synthetic, and rings won't seat very well with synthetic oil (one perfect example as to why synthetic oil is a better lubricant than regular oil).

2) The engine was built wrong.


Leave synthetic oil out of a new engine for the first 500 miles or so, to allow your rings to seat. If they refuse to seat, then something is wrong with the pistons and cylinders (excessive ring gap-to-cylinder tolerances; bad rings; rings possibly upside down; the wrongrings in the wrong grooves;etc.).

Before you ever assemble the engine, however, you should always wash the jugs (cylinders) in either clean, fresh solvent, or hot, soapy water (be sure and dry the jugs and oil them immediately if you use the water method), or both.

 

Thanks for the replies. Wife informed me it was 2/3 qt not 1/4 qt of oil loss.
Wife alsways checks her oil in the morning before taking off on the bike.
I had NRHS put the rings on the pistons and insert them into the jugs.
Plugs are dark. We purposely went rich on the adjustment till we could get the bike in to be Dynoed and set correctly. (which happens tommorow) Figured it is better to be rich than lean.
Going to do a compression check and see what the numbers are.
I use 20/50 oil. No synthetic.

I have no doubts that Dan at NRHS would walk me thru things to check. I figured I would post herefirst. That wayif I have to talk to him I will already have a list of things I have checked so maybe it will save some time.

 

1 is a myth. If you read the literature about the synthetic oil almost every manufacturer claims that it is ok to use it for break-in. In addition, cars like corvette's come with mobil 1 synthetic in them straight from the factory. Synthetic oil is nice, but it's not a miracle oil.

3) You microwelded the piston rings because of improper breakin. You know that mototune article that you read and actually followed.

If you can then do a leakdown test, then that will tell you where it's leaking from. A compressiong check is nice, but you have to know the expected cranking compression of your motor. Also, it's mostly used to check for variances between cylinders. A leakdown test will tell you more.

Also, stay on that thread that I showed you until NRHS gives you an answer. There are others experiencing the same problems as you. IMO their quality has really slipped recently.

 

Thanks for that thread. I am really surprised that NRHS hasnt replied in that thread.

Checked compression. It was 100 in each cylinder. ( I know on my sleds the compression is checked with the throttle open...Did it with the bike and the compression was 150 in each cylinder) Both done on cold motor.

 

Hmm, well then a lot of owners manuals for a lot of different auto and motorcycle products are printing such a "myth" in them. Oil manufacturers will apparently tell you anything to buy their oil.

Lots of parts makers also recommend against using synthetic oil for break-in of their parts.

The truth is that it takes much longer for rings to seat in synthetic oil than in regular oil. And I never said that they would never seat, just that they "won't seat very well," meaning the process would take longer. Also, as I mentioned, other parts can be affected as well, such as cam-to-lifter break-ins and so forth. Look up some Crane Cams literature and others and you will find this mentioned.

If you want to wait a lot longer for your rings to seat, while burning synthetic oil in the process, then that's your choice. But for me, I would not use synthetic oil to break-in any engine.

 

Lots of owner's manuals? Show me some of them that claim that for a modern vehicle. A few years ago harley didn't recommend synthetic oil ONLY because they didn't have one of their own. That would mean they would have to test another manufacturer's oil in their bikes to certify it. Of course, they were unwilling to do that as I would have been so they played it safe and didn't recommend something they haven't tested.

Also, if synthetic oil is bad for breakin, then why do the CVO bikes come with SYN3 in them from the factory?

If your rings aren't seated by a certain amount of time, then they are never going to seat.

 

Well, since I can't go out and buy or even look at lots of owners manuals for gasoline powered engines at this time, then for now all I can do is post some links to certain owners manuals of certain engines, such as this link, which appears to be an owners manual for some type of aircraft engine of some type:

"For break-in, we recommend a petroleum based oil such as Lawn Boy Ashless or Ryobi. Mix either at 32 to 1. These oils allow the rings to seat correctly. Switch to synthetic oil after 4 to 5 gallons of fuel have been used. • After the break-in process, we recommend a high quality synthetic oil."

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...ual.pdf+owners
+manual+doesn%27t+recommend+synthetic+oil+during+b reak-in&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=10&gl=us

--

Here's another link from Cummins for a Dodge Ram engine in where they don't recommend using synthetic oil during break-in:

"23. Is it OK to use synthetic oil with my Cummins engine?

Cummins recommends that you not use synthetic motor oil during the break-in period of 5000-20,000 miles, based on the type of driving, to allow proper seating of the piston rings. Beyond that mileage it is OK to use synthetic oil."

http://www.cumminsbridgeway.com/Prod...dgeRam/faq.htm

--

And I've seen others, and I don't have to prove it to you; you seem intent on arguing the fact no matter what.

I just did a simple Google search, and if you want to see any more, look it up yourself.

I've read others as well, and I believe my father's 2005 Honda says the same thing.


For those who further don't understand why it's best to use regular oil versus synthetic during break-in on most engines, the rings and the cylinders need to 'wear together' to get a proper and smooth compression fitting. The cylinders need to have all of the honing removed from them and worn smooth like a bearing during the break-in periodin order for the piston to be able to move as smoothly as possible up and down so as to cause the least amount of friction so as to cause the least amount of heat. The rings also need to be smoothed on their edges to match the 'bearing' surface that is created on the cylinder wall. Also, other parts within the engine also have to be worn together properly, such as cam to lifters, etc.

Synthetic oil, because of its far superior lubricating abilities, impedes the speed of this process from occurring; thus, many experts believe and assert that it's best to leave synthetic oil out of new engines for the first 500 miles or so, in order to allow the wear-in to occur as rapidly as possible.

I've heard that some of the newer engines go ahead and use synthetics during break-in, and this is probably because of newer honing techniques, newer ring designs, and possibly different alloys and clearances in the cylinders. But rule of thumb for most engines is to leave the synthetic out of it f

 

In addition, cars like corvette's come with mobil 1 synthetic in them straight from the factory. Synthetic oil is nice, but it's not a miracle oil.

When I was on the tour in Bowling Green at the Corvette factory they told us that all the engines come to them "pre broken in" from the engine plant, possibly in that case it's OK to use synthetic on a "new" engine.
I asked a mechanic years ago why the cylinders don't have a chrome or similar smooth surface and he explained that the honing is like a file that files down the rings so they fit properly, if there is little or no friction the rings will never properly seat, I agree that you should not use synthetic in a new or rebuilt motor during the break in period.

 

I stand corrected some manufacturer's actually don't recommended synthetic oil. However, we have conflicting information because this is what I have read:

From Mobil 1:

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/...ics/Myths.aspx

That's a long list of cars that have synthetic oil in their engines right from the factory. If you notice that includes ALL Bentley's and ALL porshe's.

From Amsoil:

http://www.amsoil.com/faqs/faq1.aspx

VW

 

Quote:

"...I asked a mechanic years ago why the cylinders don't have a chrome or similar smooth surface and he explained that the honing is like a file that files down the rings so they fit properly, if there is little or no friction the rings will never properly seat, I agree that you should not use synthetic in a new or rebuilt motor during the break in period...

[/align][/align][/align]Exactly, the rings and cylinders 'wear together,' meaning the ring wear matches the cylinder wear in the exact locations, thus giving them the best fit together possible.[/align][/align]This is why cylinders must be re-honed if you ever remove a piston, and new rings installed on the piston if the pistons are ever removed. It's basically impossible to put the rings back on the piston in the exact wearlocation, or extremely difficult to do and not worth the time trying.[/align][/align]The cylinders are also honed in such a way so as to cause oil to circulate more easily around the cylinder. This is the reason for the oblong circular effect to honing.[/align][/align]The ring-to-cylinder fit is too tight and too rough when new and still honed, which is why the slower RPM's are required. Too much speed makes for too much heat and oil burn and glaze in new cylinders and pistons.[/align][/align]I've also read that some synthetics can cause a glazing problem in honed cylinders as well, such as Red Line synthetic oil and so forth. I believe thatRed Line recommends against using their product until after the wear-in period.[/align]